Participant (00:02.425)
Hey guys, welcome again to the Big Home Ed Conversations. So as usual, this is the podcast where we're gonna be breaking down and discussing the sometimes huge challenges and the actual delights that we experience home educating our kids. So as usual, good evening, Ashley, how are you doing? I feel like we've had a great conversation already, so we've stopped nattering to actually start recording. So like...
Ashley Vanerio (00:19.831)
I'm good.
Ashley Vanerio (00:26.655)
Yes.
Participant (00:28.285)
because you know the conversation we're having because we were we're just post Mother's Day here in the UK so those of you who might be overseas we are literally just reminiscing about the delights of our Sunday my poor mother was staying with us fell down the stairs and broke her actual foot so that was a fantastic thing and then my smallest refused to even bother coming downstairs
actually give me my card because she was too busy playing and didn't want to. So between those two things I felt very special and I spent the entire day very lovingly and very okay taking care of my poor mum instead. She was in so much pain plus I really fell for her. So yeah, fingers crossed she'll heal nicely but that was a memory to be had.
Ashley Vanerio (01:11.954)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (01:16.958)
Oh.
Participant (01:22.965)
But yes, actually you were just telling me about what your girls were making for you.
Ashley Vanerio (01:24.075)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (01:27.674)
Yeah. So they do this lovely art class, um, with other home ed kids. And the woman that runs it is just so fantastic. And when I had picked them up from class last week, they had turned their paintings upside down and said, you can't look at them until Sunday because they're for Mother's Day. And I was like, wonderful. So when I look at them, I look at my oldest first and it's this beautiful flower pot.
and on each petal of the flowers and on the leaves are little kind words like loving, kind, and it says happy Mother's Day 2024. So, so sweet. And then I look at my middle child and she just drew her favorite snakes. I was like, that's lovely as well.
Participant (02:21.596)
So, beautiful, beautiful snakes. What are you trying to tell me, Giles?
Ashley Vanerio (02:21.89)
love yeah she's like this one has venom this one is a cobra this one okay that was lovely cute yes
Participant (02:35.917)
thinking about you the whole time you made it.
Ashley Vanerio (02:37.59)
The whole time, the whole time she was like, this is exactly what my mom means to me.
Participant (02:44.237)
Kids are great. I was going to say, there's some real wonderful things about home education that is obviously when you've got kids in school I suppose they tend to be doing various Mother's Day things at school maybe to kind of bring home or to be sneaky about and I mean I've got my poor husband trying to find time in the week to sneak them away. When I'm not around it would be like banishing me to another part of the house so they could actually finish something this week, it's almost as sweet.
Ashley Vanerio (02:46.153)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (03:06.476)
Yeah.
Participant (03:13.089)
But it's always a really great opportunity, I always find, with birthdays and Christmases and Mother's Days and stuff like that, to kind of check in with how they're doing with the bunch of stuff as well. It's really amazing seeing their writing year on year as well. You kind of compare from the year before and it's so sweet.
Ashley Vanerio (03:29.842)
Yeah, I love that for all of the Christmas decorations and all that stuff too. It's just so nice to save those. Yeah.
Participant (03:36.365)
see the progress that happens, it's really quite sweet actually. Okay so I wanted to like kind of like try and segue onto what we're actually talking to you guys about today, so we wanted to talk to you guys about success and failure. So the thought behind this is very much the idea that society believes that success is a certain thing.
And so like, we're just going to kind of chat around that a little bit really, and really what people see failure as, because as home educators, we know that one of the things that we'd love to have chucked at us myth wise, and obviously we're not going to keep getting into the myths in here, but the idea that obviously our children maybe won't be able to do their exams, or they won't be able to go on and do amazing things one day, or they won't become wealthy, or they'll be rubbish at social skills, and all of that nonsense, right? So we know that's a load of nonsense, so we don't need to address that.
Ashley Vanerio (04:26.786)
Mm-hmm.
Participant (04:31.355)
is that as a society we do believe that success looks a certain way. I mean what was it portrayed to you as actually when you were growing up what did you see success as? What were you supposed to be?
Ashley Vanerio (04:45.706)
The idea for all of, because I've asked my friends who went through school the same time as I did, if this varied, and the answer is 1,000% no. We all have the same vision drilled into us, which was you study hard, you get good grades, you do all the extracurricular activities possible to build up your resume so that you can get into a good college and get a good job and make a lot of money.
And that was the absolute end goal. And it's hysterical because I have a friend who their entire family, brothers and sisters, are doctors in the medical field. And they did not want to do that.
They are a very successful architect who owns their own company, makes so much money it's ridiculous, but is still considered to be like, I don't want to put words in their mouth, but like, maybe not less than, but definitely the career path was questioned the entire route because they didn't go into the medical field. And that to me is just crazy because.
We all, it's crazy for everyone in our generation, I feel like that experience that, because now I feel that we all have a ton of anxiety as well that has come out of that pressure cooker of a youth that we were in. And I don't blame anyone for it. I don't blame our parents for having that ideal. I think at the time that was very much the reality that if you didn't go down that path, if our parents didn't do.
everything they could to set us up for success in that way, then they were doing something wrong. They were failing us. They were going to cause permanent damage that could not be reversed if they did not get us into the absolute best school possible. And that included everything from aggressive SAT preparation because at that point in the States and still now, I think maybe to a slightly lesser degree.
Ashley Vanerio (06:54.386)
SATs are crucial for college entrance. And so there was a lot of stress, your sophomore and junior years of high school, to be able to get good SAT scores. And I remember when the scores would come out and the people in our grade would be sharing their scores and you would just be like, oh yeah, okay, that person did really well. I did better than this person, but worse than this person. And you just, that constant pressure was just absolutely too much.
I think for where we were in life. It was just too much. Yeah.
Participant (07:28.365)
absolutely astonishing isn't it? I mean I can remember a young lady who was doing A-levels a year ahead of me in this country, UK, and she wanted to be a doctor. And she got straight A-stars at GCSE, every single one, A-star. And she got, I think what was the equivalent of A-stars, I think it's A-stars at A-levels as well, in the subjects required to supposedly get into her pre-med. And there were no places available.
that despite getting the grades, she still couldn't get into a medical pre-med course. I think she ended up having to go overseas to get her pre-med. And I was just horrified for her that she had worked so hard and she'd done everything that they told her to and she still couldn't get what she was supposed to be getting. But that show was amazing. And I think that as I came out of school, I had definitely been academic, I'd done pretty well.
Ashley Vanerio (08:17.614)
Okay.
Participant (08:26.965)
the best but certainly up there. And I came out of it really unsettled, I actually didn't really know what I wanted to do next. So I didn't go to university and the horror of my parents and other people as well that I didn't was really quite sad and left me with a marked feeling of like, oh I should be ashamed of myself, like I should have gone, I should have furthered myself even more but I really didn't know what I wanted to do next.
Ashley Vanerio (08:40.071)
Mm-hmm.
Participant (08:56.757)
and I think that truly it goes so far beyond...
education and academia, it goes into finding a partner, it goes into getting your own house and having your children and like what's expected of us, like what success looks like, I think expands to everything, it literally it touches everything like the foods you're eating, the way your body looks, the way you talk, the accent you use, the place you live, like there are so many things that are factored in and judged.
Ashley Vanerio (09:23.692)
Yeah.
Participant (09:28.445)
whether we like to think of it as judging or not, but we, if we are looking at somebody else and going, oh wow, they've got a really big house.
itself, whether it's positive or not, is judgment. It's creating stereotyping, it's creating an ideal in our heads of what that looks like. And that's because that's what's been told to us, like we're supposed to be aiming for this stuff. So of course we look at them and we get curious, what have you done? Well, how did you get this far? Like, what kind of jobs do you do? Like, you just can't help yourself, like the curiosity is there. And that's because we've been taught that we're supposed to
Participant (10:08.337)
It has all been kind of over the last three or four years and I credit Home Ed for this in a big way because it's helped to slow me down and help me to kind of see and do and get curious about other stuff. But I really noticed how it really squashed my interest in learning. Like I had so many moments when I recognized that I was so busy.
on the treadmill going in the direction that everyone told me to, that if I wanted to do any learning, it better have an outcome. I better have a career idea in mind or a way of monetizing that. And if I was going to spend time doing it, then it better have a benefit. And it really has.
Ashley Vanerio (10:38.644)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (10:48.241)
again.
Participant (10:50.765)
created a kind of strange, like, home ed has created this really lovely reconnection with kind of curiosity for me, and has made me realise in so many ways, I get my hands in the dirt, just sitting and listening to the birds, spending time with people, sitting and making a fuzzy pom-pom bee at the home ed groups that we go to, like, whatever it is, is actually, that is...
Ashley Vanerio (11:04.908)
Yeah.
Participant (11:16.341)
That is me succeeding because I'm actually here in my life and I'm seeing and feeling and touching and enjoying. And the successful me that society told me I should be of maybe 10 years ago, I was chronically depressed. No friendships that I really counted on.
Ashley Vanerio (11:34.826)
Yeah.
Participant (11:39.913)
And was, yeah, like I was going from job to job every few years, I was always trying to push myself forward. Sure, earning more money, sure, being able to buy a house. Yes, okay, these things are not something to sniff at. Like, of course we want our kids to be able to do those things. But successful me, if you want to do it in the sort of traditional sense of what people wanted for me, was not happy. Like I was not a happy person.
What do you think? How do you find that kind of video?
Ashley Vanerio (12:10.303)
Yeah.
I think that it bleeds into so much of that. So stepping back to what you were saying earlier about that kind of like keeping up with the Joneses and that pressure to maintain this image because you see the person with the bigger house and you're thinking, okay, that's what I want. What am I doing to get there? Or even so much as to like, how do I one up them or how do I get even more than that? Because if I have more than that, then certainly I'll be happier than they are.
you know, I'll have earned the best job I can get or whatever that success bar looks like for them. But are they truly happy? Are they truly fulfilled? Or is it more about saying that's wonderful what they're doing over there and that makes them happy and that's great, but recognizing that you're different and what might be good for you is not what's good for them. And so truly seeking out those things that fulfill you and really, you know, fill your cup and
pause that happiness to happen in you. And I think that's kind of what you're saying about making the little pom-pom animal at co-op, taking that moment to pause and just do something for the sake of doing it because you enjoy it, because it's bringing you joy in that moment. And there was this home, I don't know if it was a home education quote or if it was just a parenting quote, and I can't remember it exactly. I'm going to have to look it up now because you made me think of this. But it was just about not teaching children to celebrate.
the big things. While that's important, and obviously you should do that too, you know, don't ignore a birthday or something like that, but making sure that they're appreciating and enjoying the everyday. So being like, gosh, this is just a really good cup of coffee, like, or wow, this is so wonderful that the sun is out today and we can have lunch outside. Like, let's do that. Like, how lovely is this? And just constantly
Ashley Vanerio (14:11.906)
reinforcing those little moments throughout the day, because that is what truly then leads them to grow up appreciating the everyday. Because if you wait for, if your happiness is dependent on these huge wins, then it does have that like depression moment, right? Like the time in between can feel really heavy or it can...
feel like you can't bring that to yourself. I'm not planning on explaining this right, but it just still allows your happiness to depend on much more achievable things throughout your everyday. And I was like, gosh, that's really interesting because I do think that I wait for these large moments. Like, yes, we've gotta finish this curriculum or we've got to make sure they achieve that next swimming badge or whatever.
the thing might be, because that's what we were measured on. We were measured on the SAT scores, the GCSEs. We were measured on all of those tests and tests constantly. And so I think that for me too, Home Ed has created a space where not only am I able to kind of recapture my own education the way that means something to me, I'm not learning just to pass a test, I'm learning for the sake of learning, but hopefully to give my kids that same
Participant (15:13.441)
Thank you.
Ashley Vanerio (15:39.174)
enjoyment and appreciation of the everyday.
Participant (15:45.021)
Yeah, like real satisfaction in anything that you're doing.
Ashley Vanerio (15:47.319)
Yeah.
Participant (15:49.949)
And I'd say that the process is as fun as the outcome. Like, for example, like going on holiday this year, like we've got an actual abroad holiday coming up and just like, I can't even quite believe my luck. And I'm, it's the first time we've been abroad since the COVID nightmares. So I'm really quite in awe of the fact that it's coming around the corner. And I am genuinely like, the kids were saying, I can't wait, I can't wait. And just like, no, no.
Ashley Vanerio (16:02.519)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (16:05.87)
I'm going to go to bed.
Participant (16:14.133)
this is the best bit. I said the leading up to it is the best bit. Like this is when you're planning and you're thinking and you're imagining and you're like you're researching it and you're looking at the country on like we're doing a little kind of mini project on it at the minute, just like eating some of the food and researching the wildlife and like imagining what birds we might be able to spot or maybe might be able to see a narwhal or whatever. Like, right. It's just really fun. And like,
Ashley Vanerio (16:36.365)
Yeah.
Participant (16:37.881)
It's like the likelihood of us spotting a novel is like absolutely not, but it would be certainly really amazing if we did. This idea of like that feeling, that imagination and that curiosity and just having fun.
Ashley Vanerio (16:43.214)
I'm sorry.
Participant (16:50.617)
looking forward to something or as you say just every day like you say that waking up and just being like oh guys look the sun's out like let's get outside and like simple stuff and I think what can obviously happen when we're stuck in that like real treadmill situation I mean it's funny because when we were talking about doing this episode I was saying about off-roading motherhood to the name of my um company
Ashley Vanerio (17:06.987)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (17:14.199)
Mm-hmm.
Participant (17:14.897)
The literal reason for that being called off-roading motherhood was because of this idea that we kind of all just get set on the motorway. Like we get told this is the direction we're going in. You get your grades, you get your house, you have babies, you do the things, right? And so precious few of us actually...
go slowly enough to even notice that there's a thousand different routes that we could be taking that in every opportunity is another opportunity waiting to be opened up and noticed and that if you're going too fast and if you've got your head down and you're just like no I've got to work on the next thing this is I can't be happy until I've done this I can't be happy until I've done this you're not giving yourself a chance to look up and see that there are so many avenues you could be
of the reasons why when I talk to parents about home education I say to them that like if you want to home educate that's enough like you don't have to have any other reasons like the point is that
home education alongside all of the other kind of more enlightened pastimes in terms of, I don't know, like baking, gardening, getting outdoors and enjoying the forest, spending actual time doing things like crafting, painting, drawing, writing, like whatever feels good that you're just doing for the sake of doing, like whatever that looks like for you, even if it's cleaning or whatever, like whatever feels good that you can do methodically and just take your time with and just be completely present with, like whatever that is.
Ashley Vanerio (18:36.48)
Right?
Participant (18:44.753)
if it feels good for you and you are able to access that and actually experience it, you are really living. And I think all the while we're like, I'm going to keep going from tangents, you bear with me, but there was a conversation I had with some ladies, I did this amazing sort of guided sensory walk through the Savile Gardens near us. And
Ashley Vanerio (18:57.588)
Okay.
Participant (19:07.957)
We literally were taking our time. We were smelling every flower, we were touching every interesting feeling looking thing and testing whether or not our brains were right about what we thought it was gonna feel like. And then we touched it and it was like, oh no, it's actually really spiky or I thought that was gonna be soft, but it's not. And oh, that smells pretty interesting. And we had such a lovely time. And then we realized that we were running out of time. We had to get back to the main bit at the front to go and meet someone else who was gonna come and join us. And we started walking back. And in the two, three minutes,
that we were focused on getting back to there, I paused and I went, guys, have you noticed? Has anybody seen anything? Have you smelled anything? Have you noticed anything? And I was like, oh my goodness, look at that. Literally, instantly switched off the sensory experiences, just like that.
and it was so scary and all of us were just shook by it, like genuinely got goosebumps at the idea that as soon as you have a goal or an outcome or something that you're working towards, you quite literally head down and mosey on through. And whether that's because that's where we've been trained to be or whether that's because that's just the nature of humans, I don't know. Like if we focus on outcome, then we just get so driven to it and it can actually really rob us of so much that I just, as you say, I just really hope that
Ashley Vanerio (20:24.557)
Yeah.
Participant (20:25.929)
this slower paced way of life and seeing my kids seeing me, yes not always be happy. I'm not saying I'm literally happy 24 7 that's impossible like that's not even a goal that's not what success is either truly because you can't be happy all the time but certainly enjoying my life more than the average. I'm not a slave to anything apart from my four year old. But yeah like.
Ashley Vanerio (20:49.674)
Right. Same.
Participant (20:55.577)
Is that resonating with you as well? I can't see it. But yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (20:57.23)
Yeah, yeah, I think.
going to pause for a second so we can, I just lost my train of thought, but I have something really important to say. What we were saying about.
Participant (21:12.629)
sensory walk.
Ashley Vanerio (21:14.25)
sensory functioning of... Oh, yes, okay.
Yes, so I think that for me, it's very hard to do that. It's hard to stay present. It's hard to enjoy the moment. It's just something I struggle with. And I actually think this as I'm even looking forward to holidays or vacations like you were earlier talking about and being like, oh, I can't wait, I can't wait. And then it happens and it can either be a letdown because it's not meeting your expectations.
or it does just go by so quickly and you think, okay, now what's next? What am I looking forward to next? And so I'm hoping that by trying to be intentional about this, that my kids will find this much easier than I find it. So even if it's marginally better, that will be an improvement. So baby steps.
Participant (22:03.804)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Participant (22:12.457)
It can be really hard and you are totally right that it can have a flip side, can't it? That idea of looking forward to something.
Because yeah, you're right, as soon as you get something in your head of something kind of coming, you do stop being in the day. I mean, I'm even guilty of it today actually, it's my husband's birthday in a couple of days. And we went to the shops to go and get all the ingredients. And to be fair, I have just been in a really grumpy mood today. I don't know, we just have our days, right? Like, I don't even know what time of the month it is, but frankly, I am not in a great mood. And obviously going around the food market for me as a potentially autistic ADHD woman is a sensory overwhelm. And I hate it.
Ashley Vanerio (22:37.053)
It happens, right?
Ashley Vanerio (22:43.79)
Yeah.
Participant (22:50.319)
and I never liked going in them anyway, and going in them with two small children is a hilarious day.
Ashley Vanerio (22:54.792)
Oh well that's never fun.
Participant (22:56.769)
just like just like torture myself for the morning why not. Anyway as an aside to that obviously my experience this morning like trying to get the ingredients for the cake and then my head is like planning going okay I'm still gonna get some work done this afternoon and I've got to do this tomorrow and I need to get the cake done and all I've got someone coming over and so I've got to do this so like I tend to then start like planning and like mapping out my days or weeks even ahead of me and then my brains lost and so then I'm just
because frankly I'm busy and distracted now and my brain is busy and so I have to keep, that's one of the biggest challenges for me as well, is just coming back into the moment and recognising the questions they're asking and see what they're doing and like actually allow them to have some responsibility and not get irritated with them because my brain is busy and it's so tricky isn't it? This has such a profound effect on
Ashley Vanerio (23:50.677)
Mm-hmm.
Participant (23:55.105)
who we become and how we parent and how we cope in our lives, like the way that we move, how impatient we get, how irritated we get with things. Like, that this does have a knock-on effect. It is not just about education. This expectation, this image to uphold means that you do have a constant...
Ashley Vanerio (24:09.744)
No. Yeah.
Participant (24:15.397)
fear of people judging your kids, fear of people judging you, worrying about the language you use, worrying about the way you behave, how you look, how greasy your hair is, like it never ends and so the more you can have that in your life the less happy you can be. That's why I honestly can't believe that anyone who is still very much stuck in the mindset of that yes.
the way society views it is the way it should be, like people who are genuinely living that and believe it, like I did, I used to, I was so unhappy and I just honestly can't imagine that anyone living that way is actually truly happy, all the while they're desperately trying to please the hopes and expectations and dreams and whatever of ancestors two generations ago, like it makes no sense, does it?
Ashley Vanerio (25:04.574)
Yeah. And I think we all get to that point at some time in our, whether it's just your career or your parenting journey or just life, that we realize that we have to, we have to take a little bit of ownership of our own happiness, frankly, probably all of it, but at least a portion of it and recognize that no one's going to do it for us. And if we don't,
start to examine what we need in general, but certainly to make us happy and work to fold pieces of that into our daily life, we're never gonna be content or we're always gonna feel that push to find the next thing. And for me, I think it comes in that form of like the anxiousness of like, okay, what's next? What am I missing? What am I forgetting?
What do I need to plan? So taking a step back from that and just enjoying the day and focusing on what's important right now is something that for me, that lends itself to a better outcome at the end of the day, a more enjoyable day. So.
Participant (26:20.29)
It makes you wonder doesn't it, like this idea that people have that if you raise a child to...
to embrace these small things, to slow down, to not necessarily be willing to jump on the machine wagon and to be a cog and to just crack on and do the things that we obviously potentially going to create children who refuse to do it. And this has been a big fear of mine, so if we want to sort of flick to the failure sides of things, like what we actually kind of envisioned that to be.
Ashley Vanerio (26:46.414)
Mm-hmm.
Participant (26:48.949)
that what I do sometimes worry about is that I will have children who will literally refuse to participate in like, you know, get the idea of that boss who's just like, you will just do it this way. And they'll be like, but I can see a better way that's cheaper and easier and takes me less time. No, you will do it this way. And I've seen some capacities that absolutely will need to take direction and do the things that they're supposed to be doing. Like obviously we can totally appreciate there are certain scenarios where having your own mind really isn't what they need.
that truly if they find themselves in that situation and they don't want to be doing it and it does make them miserable maybe I'm really like crazy to believe that they honestly should quit they should walk away and they should go and find a job that suits them better and I guess that there is definitely an element of like getting them to understand they're going to have to work their way to jobs where they'll have more autonomy where they'll have more free reign and more like
creativity will be allowed a bit more. But I honestly really do hope that they will be entrepreneurial or they'll come up with a way of collaborating with something or they'll go out there and they'll have an idea, an invention or a solution to something that they'll be going to someone with. I don't know. I don't know what their future holds. I have no idea who they'll become, but I really hope that they do.
Ashley Vanerio (28:10.008)
Yeah.
Participant (28:12.197)
understand what they need their days to look like, what their body needs, what their... Like yes, okay, I can sacrifice three days of my week to be rigidly in an office behaving myself, doing everything I'm told, like I can do that, but actually then I'm gonna need two days working from home where I get to sit in my pants on my sofa and do the bare minimum and maybe that's the way it needs to work for them, like maybe they'll... You know what I mean? Like whatever it needs to be, like... I don't know.
Ashley Vanerio (28:29.574)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (28:36.613)
Yeah
I think that what we're doing, and I think probably every household is to some way trying to do this, right? Trying to move our children forward in a way that allows them to respond in a situation that is in the way that's best for them. So whether that's in a relationship, whether that's in a career, an interaction with a
Ashley Vanerio (29:08.002)
manager or just a colleague, whatever that looks like, that they would be able to take that moment to just say, okay, but I'm self reflecting here. This is what I need. And let's find a way so that what you need and what I need can coexist. And I think that that's a lot of what
Participant (29:28.128)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (29:32.93)
Home education helps to foster because their days aren't spent confined by a time schedule, like the bell is going off to announce the next class. There's not that feeling of a lack of privacy, right? That constant surveillance that they're under. They're really able to, to some extent, explore education through
channel that means something to them. So when we were talking about before about studying geography through the lens of animals and who lives where and you know being able to fold in their interests into things and so you know hopefully that flexibility and kind of customization that is a definitely a gift of education. I understand that if your child's in a school.
traditional school system that they just can't do that. And that's fair. That's how it is. And that's just a different experience. We're lucky. Yeah, we're lucky that we can do it. And so I really value that. I really appreciate that. And I think that's kind of what you were saying and hoping that they can find out what works for them and find a career that works for them. I think that probably will happen naturally for children that have that type of an experience. And hopefully...
Participant (30:29.751)
in the right time.
Ashley Vanerio (30:54.954)
for children that go to school as well. I think this generation is a little more aware of the mental needs of everybody and working to meet people with what kind of support they might need given any kind of, well, needs that they have. I don't think that really happened in our time as much anyway. So I think it had to be a truly extreme case to have
counselors get involved or any kind of therapy happen. And I do think that now we're seeing more of it, probably still not enough, but more. And so hopefully people are also just more aware of their mental needs and taking those moments to do yoga or meditate or listen to their bodies. So yeah, it's important. It's really important.
Participant (31:46.861)
it is. And I think that the more we can foster that the better I think, but I think ultimately for me I think that all I envision for my kids as failure would be if they truly ended up living a life where they were very unhappy and chronically not able to meet their own needs. I think for my sake that I really hope they're able to find joy in whatever their life looks like, whether they're
stuff bombing around the world or whether they're doing a stable job and have a house and a wife and two kids, like whatever it looks like, I do not care what choices they make and where they go next obviously within the realms of the law and being good citizens to some degree, but obviously I don't want them literally being a slave to a system that, let's face it, hasn't really got our backs and never has, and it's whether we can consider it's doing its best with limited
Ashley Vanerio (32:29.445)
Of course.
Ashley Vanerio (32:33.099)
Yeah.
Participant (32:46.069)
scope and knowledge and resources and all the things, or whether we believe in a huge conspiracy, I'm not going to get into it, but the truth is that we have to trust ourselves first. And as you said earlier, no one's coming to rescue us, no one's going to fix it, not the government, not school, not a counsellor, nobody. We have to take choices and take action for our own selves, and if we're not doing that, then...
Ashley Vanerio (32:53.678)
Yeah.
Participant (33:12.073)
And also this is where role modelling comes in. If we're not doing it for ourselves.
and demonstrating that to our kids. Like we can't tell them to live a life where they're going to care about this stuff and then not do it ourselves. Like that's, they're just gonna be, but they do what they, they do what we do, don't they? They don't do what we say. So we have to be really careful not to kind of portray that that's what it's supposed to look like. And this is where the whole generational stuff works. Like over time, we will make a lot of changes. They will get a lot better from us. Hopefully they will do even better for their kids. And that's what we can hope really, is that a couple more generations
Ashley Vanerio (33:28.546)
great.
Participant (33:46.419)
line and they'll be living a life that makes sense, truly makes sense for them. And we're working our way there but I just I think I wish that the societal expectation of failure and success would stop looking so clean cut.
Ashley Vanerio (33:52.173)
Yeah.
Participant (34:05.353)
And just give people a bit more freedom, just allow us, I mean we need a community of people who are different. Like we're not all supposed to be academic, lawyers, doctors, big houses. Like that's not what it's supposed to look like. It's either supposed to be varied with lots of different interests and abilities and variety. And it's just so sad that people who haven't got the doctorate and the big house.
feel in any way a failure for not having that. That they can't see themselves as successful because they've simply got a job and they're taking care of their kids or even if they're really struggling and they haven't got a job and they haven't got somewhere to live and actually they're just surviving day to day like they are still successful they're still alive and working their way through their life and doing what makes sense for them and trying and I think that we just have to accept that this image
Ashley Vanerio (34:53.439)
Yeah.
Participant (35:02.381)
is false. It doesn't exist. Unless you are really making it about you and you're enjoying it and you're doing everything that makes sense for you within that, it's not about wealth stereotyping here. You can absolutely be wealthy, you can absolutely be a doctor, you can absolutely have a massive house. As long as that makes you really bloody happy then we're good, right? That's all we want and I think that's all we can really hope for.
Ashley Vanerio (35:21.887)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (35:26.539)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (35:29.77)
Absolutely. Yeah, it's, uh, that's what we strive for every day, right? Just to actually have our children be happy. Uh, that's definitely a success for me. I would love them to be happy, to be happy with where they are. Yeah. If we think about success when they're an adult out in the world, um, happy with the job they have, happy with the life they have happy with their relationships, friends, family, um, all of that. And then, yeah. And.
Participant (35:58.42)
Yeah. As happy as it can be.
Ashley Vanerio (36:00.422)
Yeah, exactly. Positively contributing to society. A true love of learning. Yeah, all of that, I think, would be wonderful, probably. I don't know if it's asking a lot, but that's the goal.
Participant (36:13.749)
I think this is the thing, I think we can definitely ask for happiness and I think that sometimes I think that aiming for happiness in itself is a trap, I think there's another great episode, we'll definitely touch on that more another time, but the idea is that ultimately we should be aiming for the rainbow, that I always think like it's totally fine to be experiencing all the feelings all the time, like I can experience like anger, happiness, real excitement.
Ashley Vanerio (36:26.548)
Yeah.
Participant (36:42.365)
very much sadness, actual tears, all in the same day. And I actually count that as a good day now because it's, I've felt my feelings, I've felt safe in those feelings. They have taught me something. I've actually heard what they had to say. I'm moving slow enough that I can actually do something about them. I'm not necessarily having to be staying stuck in whatever difficult situation has made me feel that way. And that's really kind of the joy for me is, I think that's what true happiness is, is actually getting to feel all those feelings and trust that
Ashley Vanerio (36:48.748)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (37:09.974)
Yeah.
Participant (37:11.561)
everything's still okay, that you've got choices you can make and you can you can duck and swerve and do what you need to do next. But yeah, I definitely another great conversation to continue another time because I'm conscious that we've been really enjoying this one. So I'll wrap.
Ashley Vanerio (37:18.838)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (37:26.758)
Yeah.
Participant (37:27.305)
here but please do come and find us. I am Offroading Motherhood and Ashley is home so do come and find us on Instagram. Come and send us a message. We know that some of you are listening which is really exciting. Thank you so much.
Ashley Vanerio (37:43.763)
Yes, thank you.
Participant (37:45.097)
and then do please come and actually say hi and tell us what you're thinking, tell us what you love, tell us what you don't like, come and have a debate with us, we love a lively conversation, so if you don't agree with something we're saying, please do come and tell us, kindly of course, no trolls allowed, please, not in the mood. But anyway, I hope you guys are having a wonderful week, happy Sunday and we'll speak to you all again soon. Bye guys, take care.
Ashley Vanerio (37:58.734)
I'm sorry.
Ashley Vanerio (38:08.918)
Bye.
