Ashley Vanerio (00:02.218)
Yeah, do you want to like do you want to talk about a couple things that we want to make sure we hit before we? start like kick it off just so we
Kelly (00:03.129)
I'm sorry.
Ashley Vanerio (00:12.027)
Let me see, I saw your text, let me like pull it up really fast. Oh, I should turn my volume off on that. Good reminder. Hmm. Oh, I never, I never thought about that. Let me open it. Oh yeah.
Kelly (00:17.91)
We can use the chat thing on the site and I wonder if we can both see it then as well.
Kelly (00:26.518)
We say we've got them.
Kelly (00:34.682)
Sorry my brain's gone completely dead. Okay, so yeah, so we've got sheltered. So we've got the idea that, so myth about home ed kids.
Ashley Vanerio (00:37.322)
I'm gonna be good.
Ashley Vanerio (00:51.918)
Right?
Kelly (00:52.49)
tight with this on.
Kelly (00:59.766)
So then you've got.
Kelly (01:03.978)
So what do we mean by sheltered? So yeah, what do people mean by sheltered?
Ashley Vanerio (01:13.229)
Right.
Kelly (01:15.327)
Um...
Kelly (01:18.59)
Why don't we want...
Ashley Vanerio (01:19.094)
Like.
Yeah.
Kelly (01:23.434)
So funny, right? Okay, this, actually, this is probably quite a funny story. Our next door neighbors were, hang on, sorry, right? Let me finish this sentence, right? Why don't we...
Kelly (01:37.727)
more.
not sheltering our kids. Right so our next door neighbour is an adult couple and they've lived there for like a really long time and they're both autistic, definitely autistic, like they're hilarious, they just were like really awkward, very quiet, didn't want to talk to us, like always like ending conversations really weirdly and so they really didn't like living next to us because they work from home, both of them work from home.
Ashley Vanerio (02:01.206)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly (02:10.486)
and obviously we home educate and we have kids and they're noisy and um shouting happens and things go on right so a couple about a month or so ago maybe a bit longer they had a removals van like i'd literally spoken to her the day before right because i'd had to say to her about the roof leaking and asked her whether or not she had any water coming in her side and um good girl
Kelly (02:40.576)
and um.
Ashley Vanerio (02:41.738)
And can you get everything you need in case that... Because we're about to start recording.
When I'm done, is your call done? Okay, yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (02:56.138)
worse than the kids. Okay, so yeah, about a month ago. No, because I yeah.
Kelly (02:59.809)
I forget he can't hear me can he because you've got the headphones in. I could have said whatever I wanted, it's hilarious. So yeah, so anyway, I'd spoken to her literally the day before and then literally the next day a removals van turned up right and they took all their stuff out and I just kind of, I was like, that's a bit weird, are they leaving? Like are they moving? Like what's going on? They hadn't put the for sale sign outside or anything so it's a bit confusing.
Ashley Vanerio (03:06.538)
Yes, you're good.
Kelly (03:24.018)
And then they um...
didn't seem to come back, we haven't seen them pop by a couple of times, like they've like popped in and then they've gone again and they've been having the house done up so they've had like the roof redone, they've had loads of stuff done inside like people doing the garden, all of it right, and now there's a random family living there with kids and it's just like they've obviously like let it out or something right, like they've that must be what they've done but they was just like they just didn't say a word and so now um
Ashley Vanerio (03:40.49)
Oh wow.
Ashley Vanerio (03:50.254)
Yeah, I would imagine so. Yeah. I just left.
Kelly (03:58.042)
Yeah, so now we keep hearing a kid crying and going, is Rosie crying? No, that's not Rosie. Doesn't sound like Thomas either. What's going on? Like we've literally figured out now that it's the next door neighbor's kid and now we obviously realize how thin the walls are because now we can hear them and I can understand now why they didn't like us very much because yeah, it is quite tricky to like, I can hear one of them crying now bless them, I must be quite young.
But it just amuses me. It's just like, they just literally said nothing. Like you would have thought that if they were moving out, they would have said, oh, by the way, we're letting the house out. So a family are going to be living there soon. Like you just, your next door neighbors, like you say something, right? Like...
Ashley Vanerio (04:32.042)
I'd be like, we're leaving.
Ashley Vanerio (04:37.751)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (04:41.014)
Yeah, 100%. I mean gosh, that's so interesting.
Kelly (04:43.171)
It's just a bit weird, like I don't care, it's not my business, but it's just funny. It's really weird.
Ashley Vanerio (04:48.61)
Yeah, oh, that's so funny. Well, it also like I feel like if it was that, like, loud, like, I mean, that it was like disturbing them, then I would say something like, Hey, do you realize like, oh, she did. Oh, and you're like, well, this is just life. So
Kelly (04:55.446)
Hehehe
Kelly (04:59.358)
Hope she did. She did a couple of times. She was not subtle. And she said to me, like, there was a time when she was commenting on Glenn shouted, and she was just like, seriously, like, he's, when he shouts, it's just like, Jesus, like, how is anybody not traumatized by that? Yeah. And I'm just like, I know, I'm sorry, I have told him to stop.
Ashley Vanerio (05:20.886)
like they jump in their house.
Kelly (05:27.326)
many times I said but yes he is loud and sudden but like I yell obviously from time to time but I said to him like it's one of those things you kind of feel like you should be safe in your own home and they know that we're not abusing our children so I feel like parents shout from time to time like it's just normal like everyone gets mad sometimes and gets irritated we try not to but it happens and yeah she I was really shocked that she actually said something about it and I was just like sorry about that.
Ashley Vanerio (05:40.95)
Yeah. Right.
Ashley Vanerio (05:46.621)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kelly (05:56.81)
don't know what to say, life happens, like you haven't got kids so like you don't really get it. Like just give us a break. Especially as it was more than a half we'd moved in either so like we're literally in the massive high stress zone of just moving in. But yeah, no she did say like we both work from home so if you can be mindful of keeping the kids quiet during the day and I'm just like I can't keep them quiet all the time, no. Like we home educate and I'm sorry but I will do my best, like I will appreciate the fact that you're working and but like...
Ashley Vanerio (06:02.899)
Yeah, give it a minute. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (06:09.619)
Yeah.
Kelly (06:26.622)
This is our home and we can't literally be censored the entire time because you could be working any time of the day, any day of the week. So like, that's not really fair on us. Like, we can't make that happen. That's crazy. Anyway, right. So yeah, so we've got myth about homemade kids being sheltered. What do people mean by sheltered? Why don't we care more about not sheltering our kids? Like, making them talk about like things that we are obviously teaching our kids. So street-wiseness.
Ashley Vanerio (06:27.025)
Kids are kids.
Ashley Vanerio (06:33.898)
Yeah. No.
Yeah.
Kelly (06:58.038)
how our kids.
Kelly (07:05.866)
the limitations we do say, so the limitations we can see in HomeAd.
Kelly (07:16.899)
and what we do to overcome that.
Kelly (07:23.21)
Um, because I don't think we need, I mean, I know we can actually say that as a myth, that homemade kids are being sheltered and maybe we can talk about like what, so we can say about like, what do people mean by sheltered and how we are aware, like we're not stupid, that obviously some people do shelter their kids in those ways. Um, and that these are some of the pitfalls that I think people are worried about. But ultimately, um...
Ashley Vanerio (07:35.064)
Right?
Kelly (07:53.078)
like this is what we're doing to overcome that. So these are the limitations that we can see in home education, this is what we do to overcome that. Then we've got why, but then ultimate, why don't we care more about not sheltering our kids? Like we should be sheltering our kids a little bit more than we currently are. That they have access to information that unsupervised far too often with adults that we don't know being given messaging and ideals and values and beliefs that are not our own.
Like there's a bunch of stuff there that's not sensible and we're letting our kids just have it like all the time. And then we can obviously refer to the fact that obviously some of the benefits, maybe, like people with, people also like bullying. So street-wise this is like bullying. Does that toughen you up? Does it actually teach you resilience? Does it actually teach you how to deal with difficult people or does it just teach you to be...
Ashley Vanerio (08:22.407)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (08:29.868)
Yeah.
Kelly (08:50.658)
numbed, hide, not put yourself out there, like people pleasing, all the rest of it, which I think it probably does, but then I think that'll probably be enough for one episode, I think that sounds like a good amount of things to talk about. I wish I could edit these, can I edit them now? I sent them, I can't change the order of them. Okay, so if we just...
Ashley Vanerio (08:52.814)
Right, people pleasing, yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (09:01.43)
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
Kelly (09:13.91)
The limitations one on what we do to overcome that comes before why don't we care more about not sheltering our kids and street-wiseness, bullying etc. And then wrap up and finish.
Ashley Vanerio (09:23.405)
Okay.
Kelly (09:26.638)
that's a good idea. I think we can use this little side bit and we can just put the notes there and then we won't forget what we're actually supposed to be talking about. I'll try and put it in the right order next time though.
Ashley Vanerio (09:32.811)
Yeah.
Well, next time we can copy paste it from the spreadsheet. We put it in there and then we can have it put up. Okay.
Kelly (09:39.25)
Yeah.
Kelly (09:44.754)
Okay, right, so we're starting it roughly just before 10 minutes so we can about time and do this fun thing look you mark a clip there we go that's when we're starting.
Kelly (09:59.102)
Hello everybody. Welcome to another week of the Big Home Ed conversations. My name is Kelly and I'm here with Ashley.
Ashley Vanerio (10:07.746)
Hi
Kelly (10:09.778)
We are here to talk to you this week about being sheltered. So we have promised you that we are not going to literally pussy-foot around the myths. We're not going to sit here trying to prove that home-educated kids are not sheltered, because we know that and we don't need to get into it. We are home-educators. We're not trying to convince the world with this podcast. We're talking to each other, so we don't need to get into that. But we thought it might be really interesting to discuss.
from our point of view, the actual limitations we do see in home education and the things which we could come up against if we didn't take action to do something about them. So that's kind of what we're going to try and get into today. And as usual, we've got our funny moment to talk to you about. So we're literally we're talking about all the things that obviously our kids are obviously out in the real world, experiencing real world things all the time.
Ashley Vanerio (11:08.462)
(laugh)
Kelly (11:08.93)
having a bit of a giggle about the stuff that they get up to and like the interactions they have, including sort of I am woman hear me roar that we experienced of Ashley's smallest at the park the other day and making sure she stood up for the fact that she's big and strong and very capable of doing this scary climbing frame that a little boy was trying to discourage her from doing and what kinds of funny stuff they're ever so funny, sort of demonstrating that they are more than confident to speak up.
get involved in the world around them.
Ashley Vanerio (11:41.282)
That was so funny. Yeah, that was a really funny moment actually. Yeah, she wasn't taking, she wasn't gonna be pushed around. Let's put it that way. Yeah.
Kelly (11:52.002)
No, he's got the confidence of, I don't know, I'm trying to think of the most confident thing you can think of on the planet. I'm not going to be able to come up with something now. Maybe a cat. We come back to cats, shall we? Cats are confident, right? They're literally like this, they take nothing from anyone, do they? But anyway, so we thought we'd kind of start to get into it. So first of all, we've got this idea. So the myth about home-educated kids being sheltered. So we thought we'd kind of cover first of all, like,
Ashley Vanerio (12:01.662)
Oh, yeah. And they just don't care. Yeah. Exactly.
Kelly (12:20.586)
what do people actually mean by this? So like, when they're thinking that a home educated child is not going to attend school, they're gonna be at home with their family, what are they imagining that looks like? What do they think that child is missing out on? And I think that fundamentally, one of the main ones that you hear people say are things like them spending time with children from all walks of life. So different backgrounds, different races, creeds.
maybe they've got obviously different levels of kind of sort of language maybe, sorry, my brain went off for a second then, it's always helpful. So yeah, so you've got things that obviously, lots of different things, lots of reasons why we're different. And that idea that obviously if we're not in a room with 30 other children that have all just been like from the local area, it's obviously just like chucked in a room together, that they won't have that opportunity to experience diversity.
And I think what's really interesting about that is actually the assumption therefore, that everybody who home educates is white, British, middle class, that there is nobody else who would possibly be able to, or want to, or whatever, and it's really fascinating to me. Um, so there's a lot of things if you kind of, if you follow the trace of the thought, like where those things are actually coming from, so they basically, it's that idea that as home educators, we're all very privileged.
Ashley Vanerio (13:28.299)
Right.
Kelly (13:48.802)
and wealthy and that our children won't experience hardship, they won't experience all these things. And it's quite fascinating that one because I mean certainly in my group of friends I've got a really great friend who's Czech, another I believe is from Turkey, another one from Romania, we've got we've got a really diverse actually very diverse group of friends.
Ashley Vanerio (14:11.083)
Yeah.
Kelly (14:15.226)
who are all kind of involved in our local community are in and do it all the time, have either done it from the beginning or have obviously pulled their kids out more recently. And it just fascinates me like this. Again, it is another myth, but it's that idea that we're all of the same, cut of the same cloth. You couldn't be any further from the truth, could it really?
Ashley Vanerio (14:38.167)
Yeah. And it's really interesting. This was kind of, I was looking up some statistics for a different conversation we were having, but one of the things that stuck out to me, and I could be off because I'm going off of memory here, but I think it was something like 41% of homeschoolers in the U S are non-white, non-Hispanic, which is like an incredible number if you think about it, because that, I mean, I took a pause on that one. I was like, wow. So I will.
double check that fact, but it was definitely something that was surprising me and showing that home education, at least from the numbers I was seeing in the US, has absolutely grown. It is becoming more mainstream and it's crossing backgrounds, religions, income levels. It's very interesting and even educational levels for the parents. So it kind of spans.
the entire gamut that you could imagine of backgrounds. There really isn't just one stamp that can be applied to all the families anymore. It's very diverse.
Kelly (15:43.486)
Yeah, and it's what's lovely about that is that ultimately, our children, obviously, as well, I guess, the question you get from that, I guess, is the idea that people think that obviously, if a child is in a classroom with 30 other children, and that is where they get their understanding of all those different things, right, they get their diversity training by being in that space with those 30 other random kids.
Ashley Vanerio (16:04.628)
Yeah
Kelly (16:12.578)
close to, spent a lot of time with, understood very much about, I'd say probably 80% of the class that I was in. Like if you really think back now, I mean I know obviously I'm like 35 now so thinking back and remembering the names of everybody who went to school with it, primary school is nonsense, but I really can only remember a handful of them. Like the few who are my close friends and then a few outside of that I was aware of and maybe spent some of my time with, right?
Ashley Vanerio (16:22.391)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (16:33.675)
Yeah.
Kelly (16:41.13)
Realistically, you're not getting diversity training just by experiencing people in that small catchment. Where you are getting your diversity training and your awareness of your community and actually understanding people's backgrounds and experiences is by actually being out in the community. And again, we're not gonna like labor on this because we get it, but the point is that it's really fascinating that people who are judging home education or worrying about it.
Ashley Vanerio (17:01.751)
Right.
Kelly (17:11.694)
are looking at this and thinking that our children aren't getting access to diversity if it's not in their immediate friend groups. They chat to everyone, I mean everyone, they don't have a fear of adults and other people because there isn't as much of that hierarchical nonsense in their lives. They don't have a fear of chatting to the postman or chatting to the guy in the shop or asking someone.
Ashley Vanerio (17:23.842)
Yeah.
Kelly (17:41.006)
question when we're in a restaurant or whatever right like they'll chat to look at and interact with almost anyone so it's really fascinating how like just going and sitting in a cafe for example with my littlest a couple of weeks ago there was a gentleman behind us who had a physical disability he was um his movements were quite jerky and so bless him obviously trying to eat his lunch and um
Ashley Vanerio (17:48.653)
Yeah.
Kelly (18:05.846)
There was a moment when he tried to take a bite of his sandwich and he hit himself in the face with his sandwich. And to an adult, obviously, I'm not watching him myself properly. He was just in my eye line. Um, and Rosie.
Kelly (18:24.178)
my smallest, burst out laughing. And it was awful. It was one of those moments where I was just like, no, we don't laugh at him, sweetheart. Like that's not okay. And then I kind of caught myself and went, okay, take a breath, take a breath. This is her experiencing something for the first time. She hasn't come across someone with a physical disability who is obviously trying to eat and this is an opportunity for a conversation. And so I just explained to her, I stopped kind of like...
being offended for him because he probably didn't even really notice and maybe he like maybe he gets it sometimes and he understands that children are children and hopefully he wouldn't have minded too much and I did apologize to him and to his carers I'm sorry like that wasn't quite the reaction I was hoping that she'd have but I can understand why she laughed because without understanding that he's not able to control that it probably did look funny like she just like what is he doing like that seems like a strange thing to do.
Ashley Vanerio (19:02.567)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (19:23.372)
Right.
Kelly (19:24.234)
And so it creates a conversation. And then we obviously get to have that conversation and sit down and speak to her about physical disabilities and how sometimes people, like I said, like when you ask your hand to pick up a sandwich and put it into your mouth, you're able to do that. Like it allows you to do that motion. I said, but unfortunately something is stopping him from being able to do that smoothly. I said, it must be quite frustrating for him, sweetheart. Like he's getting a bit annoyed by it. And I said, it must be quite tricky to live like that.
And it creates a conversation, obviously, in situations when you're with someone and they're able to have a conversation with that someone about their experience of life in some capacity, it creates this textural awareness, like this real world experience that just looking at a textbook or reading a story about people who have disabilities will give you something.
Ashley Vanerio (20:10.153)
Yeah.
Kelly (20:20.698)
or do you know what I mean? It's just an example, but there's loads of things like this, where if you're just out and you're talking to people and experiencing people, that you will obviously get that information and you'll learn about this stuff. So it's not something that we have to, it's definitely not something that home educated kids are sheltered from. And it isn't something that I will be worrying about hugely.
Ashley Vanerio (20:40.674)
Right.
Kelly (20:47.562)
because they are out and they're seeing people and talking to people and interested in people all the time. And we plan to travel and there'll be all sorts of moments like this, I think, for them. But I think it's interesting, isn't it? Because, I mean, when it comes to home education, can you yourself think of any of the limitations that you do think that you might come up against when it comes to this sort of thing, that actually, like the worries around shelteredness? Like, what is it that might actually be happening?
Ashley Vanerio (21:17.238)
You know, I don't, it's funny because when we started talking about this conversation and you know, what was in, what kind of came to mind around it, because you do hear these myths that like homeschool kids are sheltered. And I don't really feel that I always hear it in the context of like sheltered from like real world experiences, which we were just talking about is not the case at all whatsoever. And that in fact, like it's probably less like the real world to put.
30 children of the same age in a room and have them go through their whole school experience in that way. And they're never going to be in that situation again. Your job is not going to be 30 people your same age, right? Whatever you do, you're just never going to be in that situation as a parent. Like, I mean, you and I have like six years between us, like difference between us, right? But we're at the same like...
Kelly (21:57.911)
Mm.
Kelly (22:02.048)
No.
Ashley Vanerio (22:15.458)
parenting stage, our children are of similar ages, we have like that same experience. And I think that like, that is just going to be how it is the second you leave that traditional school environment, you're just no longer in my mind sheltered from the diversity that you're going to experience in the real world. And so I think that when it comes to that conversation, I don't feel that they're
Kelly (22:16.907)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly (22:32.808)
No.
Ashley Vanerio (22:46.038)
sheltered from real world experiences. Now, I'm sure that there are some home educators out there who maybe do sit in their home with the windows drawn and the door closed and they don't leave. But I actually think that is probably pretty rare. I don't think it's a very, I just don't know of anyone. The biggest conversations I have with other homeschoolers is
Kelly (23:06.795)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (23:14.338)
We have too much going on, you know, and in making sure that, you know, we're not, because it's so easy, right, to sign up for all the things. And, you know, it was, again, researching something else, but came across the statistic that 98% of homeschoolers have five or more activities a week on average. And we check that box. We have five. And so it's so easy.
Kelly (23:15.914)
We'll just.
Kelly (23:22.134)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly (23:39.67)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (23:43.022)
for them to have experiences where they are learning from another adult. They are interacting with different children, whether it's for a sport or a craft, or if students are involved in any kind of religious activity. So these opportunities are there, and homeschoolers are embracing them for the most part. And I think it's something where, like you were saying, we're rarely at home.
We are taking them out to do things like run errands, do the shopping, go to, you know, if we get a coffee, they're at the cafe with us. They're wanting to order, they're wanting to, I mean, my kids always wanna pay. So they're like, let me bring my piggy bank. And actually we were talking about this before we started recording, but I had recently needed to get cash out of the ATM. I don't know if you call it an ATM here. And...
Kelly (24:21.569)
Yeah.
Kelly (24:27.111)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (24:42.474)
So I brought the kids while they were with me. So we went over and I was actually really thankful that I used the outside one because they were asking so many questions that had we been inside, I think it would have been like a very interesting experience for those around to watch. Yeah, what is happening? So yeah, cause my four year old was just like.
Kelly (24:57.817)
Are these children locked in a box? Like what is going on?
Ashley Vanerio (25:05.922)
Oh, this is where the money comes from. Like, cause she didn't understand what we were doing. Cause we were just like standing outside at the wall of the building. Like, and I put my card in and started pushing the buttons. And so I was explaining like, well, this is where we get the money, but it's tied back to our bank account. So it's giving us our own money. Oh, well, I can, I get some money out of here. Like she was just so interested, um, and how it all worked. And she kept.
Kelly (25:12.822)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (25:33.95)
know, kids love pushing buttons. So she kept wanting to reach over and it's like a touch screen. And I was like, don't touch the screen because I don't know what you're going to hit. We're going to end up with like some transaction that I don't want. So it was so, it was so funny. But, um, so yeah, so we're having these kinds of experiences. Um, and I think they're also, you know, some of the feedback might be like, well, they're not experiencing, um,
Kelly (25:39.81)
Hahaha!
Kelly (25:46.69)
Bless them.
Ashley Vanerio (26:02.122)
you know, maybe having to wait and be patient and wait their turn or, you know, understand kind of the give and take of like that environment that does happen a lot, obviously in a classroom setting. And I think, you know, just thinking about the bank, I was thinking about when we moved here and we had to set up a bank account, my kids were there for that. So they came with me to that bank. We went inside and they watched me like, you know, give over the information, the appropriate documentation.
Kelly (26:22.21)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (26:31.29)
And I vividly remember them being bored out of their minds, having to sit there and like wait for me to do this and not touch all the things. And it was, you know, close to the holidays because we moved in November. So there was like Christmas ornaments everywhere and they wanted to touch the tree and touch the fake presents and all of this stuff. And I was like, you just have to sit and wait patiently. And I wouldn't give them my phone. I didn't give them. I think they might have had some coloring books.
Kelly (26:39.894)
Yes.
Kelly (26:58.027)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (27:00.61)
But yeah, so it was just one of those experiences that was real life. Like we all know what it is to wait at a bank or to wait for something in any store or, you know, government building. Yeah.
Kelly (27:10.398)
Yeah, we all have to experience like patience at some point. And I mean, I think this is a thing. I mean, there's so many different characteristics and different kind of people going to worry about them kind of as you say, learning how to sit patiently and wait their turn. My son will sometimes even put his hand up. I don't even know where he's learned this from. He's actually sometimes he'll just put his hand up to speak. And I'm just like, you don't need to do that. And he's just like,
Well, I just wanted to let you know that I wanted to go do this. I'm just like, that's fine. You can just say that. You didn't need to put your hand up. Um, he must've been watching like cartoons and like the TV programs and stuff that show kids doing it in schools and stuff. Um, but it's, um, it's fascinating to me that they will, they still pick up some of the, um, characteristics of school children because they, they watch it on TV or they, they talk to their friends who go to school. Um.
they do understand some of it, but I guess maybe what they, I guess what people are worried about is that if you don't have these set experiences, right? So if you're not going into a school environment and you're not experiencing school, then you're not known to know the behaviors and expectations that maybe an entry-level workplace might have on you. And I understand.
that people do think to themselves, oh no, my kids aren't going to be able to go and sit and listen to a lecture in university without constantly interrupting, or like wanting to add in what they already know and get all excited. Or maybe you're worried that they'll sit, they will try and get a job one day and they'll answer back to the boss when the boss is being ultimately very rude to them, or whatever, right? And I guess...
The question I would love to ask anybody who is sitting there worrying about whether or not their child will be able to sit down, shut up and put up with the demands of what is considered to be real life, is do you want your children to sit down, shut up and put up with the real life that is currently making you really miserable? Or would you like them?
Ashley Vanerio (29:17.731)
Right.
Kelly (29:30.05)
to be the change that we all wanna see, right? And I think that this is a thing, this is where we can actually start to feel quite rebellious and this is why I know sometimes that the fears about home educators having the autonomy to live their lives free from the orchestrated rules of school and therefore obviously what comes next is this idea that if you take them away from that and you don't let them experience that.
Ashley Vanerio (29:34.245)
Right.
Kelly (29:59.638)
that one day when they go to do a job, they'll have a boss not being very nice to them and they'll say, hey, don't speak to me that way. I kind of like that. And that boss will be like, who do you think you're talking to? I'm your boss. And be like, I'm talking to a fellow human being who just so happens to be in the leadership team of this company and I don't like being spoken to that way. And...
Ashley Vanerio (30:22.54)
Yeah.
Kelly (30:24.694)
I do not see what is wrong with that. I just don't.
Ashley Vanerio (30:29.962)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that one of the things that this sort of education process that we do as, as home educators that does heavily involve the community and, you know, being out and about when we're doing things that have to happen while shops are open or whatever the case might be. Um, and our children are just in tow, uh, is that they really do learn.
that interaction. So I don't, I don't think that obviously if my seven-year-old now were to be in a situation like in a university lecture setting, yeah, she would be bonkers. But I think that by the time she is at that age where she would be, she'll absolutely understand the cadence of the classroom and the way that...
Kelly (31:11.762)
So cool, yeah.
Kelly (31:16.224)
Yeah.
Kelly (31:19.862)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (31:26.058)
you know, taking turns and waiting for the appropriate time to interject kind of happens. I, I don't, I don't think that, yeah, that would be a problem for sure. And you're right. We want them to be advocates for themselves. And, um, clearly my youngest is just rocking that path already based on her playground skills. Um, and so, you know, I think that. If I were to say.
Kelly (31:31.358)
Yeah, of course they will.
Ashley Vanerio (31:55.602)
an area that they might be sheltered from. It might just be the actual school experience. So that is definitely the norm. That is definitely the expectation. So when I meet anyone, it's like this whole conversation, if it somehow gets to like, oh, you know, how
Kelly (32:03.465)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (32:21.014)
Are the kids enjoying their school break? And usually I'll just say yes, I won't get into it. Um, but something came up where I was talking to someone, um, that I play field hockey with about an upcoming trip. And they were like, Oh, so you're pulling them out of school for, for a week. Because it's obviously during term time. And I was like, well, no, we home educate. So, you know, it's not, not a problem. And they were like,
And typically they're actually pretty supportive. Like the comments was like, oh, well, that's amazing because isn't it so annoying when you have to get fined to take your child out of school? And they were like, and usually like, if you're going on vacation, like there's educational components to that. You're seeing a new place, you're learning about a different culture, you're experiencing the daily life there. Probably you're gonna do some kind of educational.
Kelly (33:06.256)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (33:14.042)
know, quote unquote, educational thing, like go to a museum or, you know, see some kind of history from that area. And I was just like, yeah, absolutely. And I think especially as home educators, we really lean into those kinds of things. So, you know, if we're going on a vacation somewhere, we're probably going to read a book about it before we go. We're probably going to learn about, you know, some points in the history and things to look out for and get excited about. So yeah, and it is interesting, but then, you know, you do get those
Kelly (33:31.929)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (33:43.394)
people occasionally who are like, oh, okay, that's interesting. Like, tell me about that. Or immediately, like, what do you do for socialization? Like, I thought it was drives me bananas. I'm like, hmm. Well, let me just tell you, park it, cause you're gonna have 10 minutes coming at you.
Kelly (33:52.404)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Kelly (34:03.674)
The funniest time I had someone behave like that was at my son's football on a Friday, Saturday morning, which is obviously all like a mixture of school kids. I think he was the only home educated there that I was aware of anyway. And someone literally posed that question to me whilst we're literally at football in his local community, playing with a bunch of other kids his age, getting along absolutely fine, like having a lovely time, like laughing and joking with them.
Ashley Vanerio (34:14.036)
Yeah.
Kelly (34:32.09)
integrating with the team completely fine. But like, but like, what do you do about socialization and stuff? I'm just like, I literally just like made a face, like I wish you could see my face right now, like I'm making the face, but then like that, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean? What do I do for socialization? What am I doing right now? Like, seriously. And I think it's, it's really fascinating how people get stuck in this idea that if they don't have school, then they won't have these things.
And I guess that from an outside perspective, like if you imagine that they've never considered home education truly beyond like the idea of a terminally ill child or a disabled child or someone who like can't help but be home educated, like if they've genuinely never thought about it beyond that point or maybe worse, they got to experience what basically the homeschooling is so in the UK referring to it as homeschooling means that the child is at home being given work
from a school to do. So terminology wise, obviously when we say homeschooling on this podcast, we mean the American homeschooling, which means home education. So just to clarify that one very quickly, but then when people experienced homeschooling in the UK during COVID, they experienced utter horror show of having five hours of worksheets, zoom calls for sometimes multiple children.
Ashley Vanerio (35:34.635)
Mm.
Ashley Vanerio (35:43.863)
guess.
Kelly (35:58.358)
that they had to force onto these various things. And often, I mean, there's a huge number of schools right now that have kids home because they found the school buildings were unsafe earlier this year. So there's loads of schools that are currently shut. Kids have been home for months again. It's been an absolute nightmare in this country. I've kind of lost my train of thought now. But the point is that obviously people are experiencing home education and they never thought about it before. And so they've literally got these same sets.
Ashley Vanerio (36:07.658)
Right?
Ashley Vanerio (36:18.103)
Yeah.
Kelly (36:27.374)
myths and ideas stuck in their heads. And so you get the same set of questions. And they're all worried about their kids getting this socialization, getting this time with other kids. And for them, they may be work full time, their lifestyle, their situations, they're working full time, their kids are in school full time. If they didn't, like go to school, then they would struggle to find enough time to socialize them. So it's an understandable question. And I think that quite often I can find myself
feeling a little defensive, then recognizing that actually, well, I Googled all these things once myself. There was a time that I literally searched, is home education legal? Is this actually a thing? You mean we actually don't have to send them to school? We actually can just keep them home? But anyway, kind of getting, we digress. It's kind of back to the point of this whole shelter thing, is that we're obviously, we're looking at a bunch of different things that they'll experience in school.
that frankly, I actually want to ask the question now of, why do we not care more about not sheltering our kids? Because there's a lot of people who are sending their kids to school knowing that their child is going in experiencing a lot of bullying. They're experiencing racial hate. They are experiencing a curriculum that has been whitewashed and bits of information stripped out of it.
Ashley Vanerio (37:43.596)
Yeah.
Kelly (37:55.422)
or just not bothered to be teased. Teased, oh my god, goodness me. I'm doing great today. Not taught, there we go, I promise, I do know English. So we, honestly, oh, stop recording at night.
Ashley Vanerio (37:59.282)
I'm gonna do this.
Ashley Vanerio (38:04.926)
No. We have to record earlier in the day. That's what I fall back on. We're just exhausted.
Kelly (38:13.05)
I'm so sorry. So yeah, so they're obviously they're learning a curriculum that's got holes in it. Like we all have gaps in our education, gaps in our understanding. And then ultimately, we have children experiencing things in schools, including bullying, sexual abuse, harassment, like it's following them home. Like social media is a horror show.
Ashley Vanerio (38:20.61)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (38:38.519)
Yeah.
Kelly (38:40.274)
and children are on it and wanting phones, wanting to be a part of it from a ridiculously young age these days. We've got girls as young as eight or nine worrying about what they look like so much that they're anorexic. We've got children with severe mental health issues. And I know, I mean, I know that there are going to be children who are home educated who will also have mental health issues. I know they will have children who will be anxious, who.
Ashley Vanerio (38:46.347)
Yeah.
Kelly (39:06.714)
are worried about things, who do have tricky relationships with other children. There is obviously, I have witnessed the tiniest amount of difficult relationships. I don't think I've ever witnessed full-out bullying, but I have seen moments when things haven't been very nice. But the most amazing part about it is that they're with adults who are paying attention, who know their kids, they know the other kids, and if they don't know the other kids...
Ashley Vanerio (39:30.765)
Yeah.
Kelly (39:34.006)
then there's a parent there that they're able to go and have a chat to and say, hey, this just happened. I've spoken to mine, would you mind speaking to yours? Cause this wasn't great. And it really upset them and blah, blah. Like, and it can be dealt with and it's always dealt with. I've never had a moment where there's been a difficult moment and the parents haven't between them dealt with it and spoken to their kids and, and worked on it. And maybe gradually over time, things have improved. Or you just keep your distance and you just, you just don't like, you teach your child to have compassion.
maybe for accepting that person has got additional needs or something, but also to set boundaries and to step away and to say, actually, I'm not, I'm not, I don't like that. I don't want that in my life. Um, and, and to not think that it's personal, to not take it as something about them that they don't need to change who they are or whatever. If that person doesn't like them for who they are, then they just don't bother with that person, play with somebody else. Um, that we, that I have been lucky enough through finding the home-made community to find my people, um, and to actually be amongst people who get me and feel good.
Ashley Vanerio (40:16.854)
Yeah.
Kelly (40:33.238)
in my life. And obviously ultimately that's what we're hoping for with socialising our kids is that we want them to do that. But yeah, I just think there's a lot of things that children are experiencing in other educational settings that are not sheltering them at all. Like they're leaving them vulnerable and open to experiencing things that yeah, okay, you want to talk about street-wiseness and building, toughening them up and building...
Ashley Vanerio (40:53.93)
Yeah.
Kelly (41:02.886)
so-called resilience. We know that isn't true, that doesn't work like that, that it just builds trauma.
Ashley Vanerio (41:08.294)
Yep. Yeah. I mean, I'm happy to shelter my kids from extreme bullying, from... Because let's be honest, right? Like you were saying, there are situations where, I mean, it's not like every homeschool kid gets along with every homeschool kid. Children are still children. They're still going to have those behaviors. But it is a bit more controlled. It is a bit more seen, right? And you can...
Kelly (41:14.774)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly (41:22.517)
No.
Ashley Vanerio (41:34.498)
be there for your child and believe them and not just play it off like, oh yeah, some kids are like that, just let it fall off your shoulders or whatever, roll off your shoulders. So I think that is really important, especially at this young age. I don't think elementary kids need to be toughened up or they don't need to experience that. And we all were there, kids can be cruel. So I think if there's a component of that I can, whether or not it's forever, at least delay.
Kelly (41:56.351)
Yeah.
Kelly (42:02.53)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (42:03.058)
until my child is at a more confident point in their growth, you know, as they're aging. You know, I think that's wonderful. And I think that if I'm sheltering them from those unsupervised situations, that's amazing. So I'm happy to do that. I mean, what is the statistics, the average?
Kelly (42:10.006)
Yeah.
Kelly (42:18.498)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (42:29.262)
kid experiences or sees porn for the first time by age 11 and that shifts down to as early as seven. So, I mean, that's something I would love to delay as much as possible and at least have some conversations around it before it does happen, right? And then if I'm sheltering them from school shooting drills, which we have in the States, I'm happy to do that too.
Kelly (42:35.586)
Thanks for watching!
Kelly (42:41.575)
Yeah. My goodness.
Kelly (42:47.98)
Yeah.
Kelly (42:54.803)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (42:58.418)
I think that if I'm sheltering them from anxiety around grades and performance, then I'm happy to do that. If I'm sheltering them from, right, yeah, homework for homework's sake, like just to have a ton of homework every night so these kids barely have a moment to themselves. They spend all day in school, then they come home and have activities, whether it's, you know, scouts or sports or whatever, and then they get home from that, they wolf down a dinner.
Kelly (42:59.001)
now.
Kelly (43:06.178)
Mm-hmm. Paracenitis.
Mm. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (43:26.89)
and then have hours of homework until I fall asleep and do it all again, like that to me sounds miserable. So I'm happy, yeah.
Kelly (43:32.091)
Yeah. Hustle culture, it's training for future life, right? It's just trying to get them used to it so that they're able to go into a job and allow someone to take advantage of them.
Ashley Vanerio (43:39.462)
Yeah. I mean, I just think that there's, you know, there are some cultures who are already sort of wise to this. And I think about the countries that delay formal schooling until the children are, you know, they don't even start learning how to read and everything until like, what, six or seven? And I think sometimes later, exactly. And I think that that's amazing. Like,
Kelly (44:00.382)
Yeah, sometimes later. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (44:06.75)
I was recently looking at a school curriculum for kindergarten in the States and I was just shocked. I'm like, we did not do that in kindergarten. Now, I know this is a great many years ago, but yeah, I mean, it's just so different. And you know, if we're sheltering, I have three girls, so if I'm sheltering them from body image issues and just delaying that as much as possible, then I'm happy to. Like I don't want my nearly 10-year-old.
Kelly (44:16.854)
I know
Kelly (44:28.126)
Oh yes. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (44:34.31)
on TikTok posting videos and comparing herself to other children. It's just too young for me. I mean, we did not grow up with that. I'm so happy we didn't, but I don't think they need any added stress on their like very fragile selves at this point.
Kelly (44:37.548)
Yeah.
Kelly (44:52.242)
And ultimately, if I could stop my kids from ever being worried about what they look like, it would be the best thing on the planet. But I know that obviously that's maybe unrealistic, and again, there's the whole idea of being sheltered, right? Like I appreciate that if I never explain to them that people out there can be cruel, and they might say something or they might do something that will upset them or hurt them, then that is obviously a failing on my part.
Ashley Vanerio (44:58.154)
Yeah.
Kelly (45:21.162)
And I think this is where the street-wiseness comes in, right? The understanding that these things could happen and being aware that not everybody is nice and that there are judgements in this world. But to remember, I guess that from my perspective, I try and remind my children to be compassionate and to try and understand that hurt people hurt people. So like I was trying to explain to them, it's just, I say it's frustrating because you get things, you get messaging.
Ashley Vanerio (45:30.039)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (45:42.477)
Yeah.
Kelly (45:49.782)
matter how hard you try. So for example reading Harry Potter, there's an awful lot of fat phobia and body judgments that are in Harry Potter's writing and JK Rowling's writing. Sorry, I was getting there eventually. I really should break my brain up for this sort of things. That obviously within her writing she obviously does describe characters in, obviously they're children's books, they're designed to be reasonably simple to read, so I appreciate that she is
Ashley Vanerio (45:58.754)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (46:03.446)
JK Rowling, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kelly (46:19.722)
describing them to make a really visual image of who they are and what they're like. But there is an awful lot of fat equals stupid or mean or bully or like they have big red rosy cheeks that they're, but it's just not very nice. Like there's an awful lot of quite negative language being used around it. And there was a moment in the car when I hit pause on it because I was just like, my ears were just like.
Ashley Vanerio (46:29.179)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kelly (46:49.602)
don't listen to this anymore, like this is awful, like I can't let him carry on listening to this book. And I paused it and I was just like, oh, it's okay. He's gonna experience this messaging. He's gonna get it. He watches telly. He speaks to people all over the place. Like he reads books, he's going to get messaging. I mean, the amount of books that he will one day read that I will have no idea that he's read, let alone what they contained. So he's gonna get messaging. And I said to him, I said, what?
Ashley Vanerio (47:01.878)
Yeah.
Kelly (47:18.038)
does being fat mean? And he goes lazy, eats too much, can't do anything and I was like is it a good thing or a bad thing to be fat and he goes a bad thing and I was just like hmm interesting and I said mummy is fat. I said if you want to own the word, like I tend to use it in a body positive way so I use the word fat and he goes no you're not, don't say that about yourself and I went no no.
Ashley Vanerio (47:41.175)
Yeah.
Kelly (47:46.93)
I'm not being mean to myself. I'm stating a fact. I am in a body which is considered fat. It's bigger than the average person, supposedly average, whatever, like what people would consider to be the average. Like I'm in a bigger body. I said, mommy's okay with that. I love myself. I said, I think, like, do you think that I'm lazy? And he goes, no. I said, do you think that I'm stupid? And he goes, no. And I was like, okay. So fat.
Ashley Vanerio (48:08.645)
Right.
Kelly (48:16.33)
doesn't equal those things. Like, but some people, and we're all big people, frankly, bigger people, have experienced judgment, hate, stereotyping, shoving in a box made to feel really small, made to feel like you're not worth listening to, making you feel whatever, right? So all these things. We know that we experience that stigma.
Ashley Vanerio (48:29.92)
Yeah.
Kelly (48:41.27)
But I sort of explained to him, he can't go around just saying, oh, you're fat to people because not everybody has done the work that I have done to accept myself and love myself regardless of how my body looks. I said, some people will find that really upsetting. And I said, so we had to have that complicated conversation. And there are some brilliant courses out there around this so like Body Happy Kids, for example, is a really great one that helps to explain how to talk to children about these things because
Ashley Vanerio (49:06.611)
Mm.
Kelly (49:10.634)
We do need to talk to them about it, but we certainly don't want to be adding to the fear and the stigma and the things that make them worry about it even more. So this is the thing, in school, we know that children are being made to worry about their weight by the healthy eating classes they get. They get taught about calories. They get weighed in school in front of their peers. They get...
Ashley Vanerio (49:37.442)
Yeah.
Kelly (49:38.67)
Oh my goodness, it's just there's so much to this nonsense that adds to the narrative that a certain body shape is the correct body shape to be, and that is quite literally being taught in schools. That's not just, it's not something which is just absorbed from kids being mean, this is actual curriculum. So we do have things here which we have, like as you say, I am more than willing to shelter my kids from this, this nonsense because I don't want, I don't want it in their heads.
Ashley Vanerio (49:55.208)
Yeah.
Kelly (50:07.966)
I don't want them worrying about this stuff. I will educate them about nutrition. I will educate them about how to eat a balanced diet, what their body needs in order to be able to keep go, going like they like to. But we do talk about like, we need to make sure we have varieties of foods that you can eat whatever you want, but we must make sure that we've like, think about what you've eaten that day. And if it's mostly like bread or chocolate or apples, then we need to think, okay, well, what else can I eat? Like.
Ashley Vanerio (50:13.09)
Yeah.
Kelly (50:34.762)
that's normal, that's a good thing, but it's not shaming anybody for eating too much of one thing or whatever, right? So we can go on about this forever. But the point is that street-wiseness, when we're thinking about the stuff that they do need to understand, that bad things could happen, that there are mean people out there, there are scams, there are things that they need to be conscious of online, that there is so much that I kind of just want to stress that...
Ashley Vanerio (50:41.129)
Yeah.
Kelly (51:03.59)
It is still our responsibility to teach our children these things, to make them aware that these bad things could happen, that they might go into a workplace one day and just try and remember that not all the people who are there are going to have been raised like you. But is that not the case of every child? Like whether they've been in school or otherwise, you're going to go into any new situation that you go into. Like it's going to be like that, isn't it?
Ashley Vanerio (51:16.166)
Right.
Ashley Vanerio (51:22.166)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (51:29.918)
Yeah. And I think that, you know, even looking at like the experience with the book or, you know, as these, the cafe experience you had with your youngest, like as these situations come up, we have this ability just because of the how we're with them. So often all the time that we can interject and kind of pause, we can pause the audio book. We can stop reading the book. We can ask the questions and kind of have this really frank conversation about
how things work, how it is. And then even to talk more about like the liberties of an author, right? And to say like, you know, I don't think they're too young to kind of hear why things are like this. So we can really kind of explain to them like, look, this author is trying to paint a picture for you, right? This is a book, it's not a movie. It's aimed at young readers who are kind of making that transition from.
picture books to books where they have to visualize it in their mind, right? And that's so great. We love these stories but sometimes the words that an author chooses to use is based on their own experiences, their own, you know, I don't want to say limited because I mean, I know she's a great author obviously. But like the vision that they're trying to paint for you might not align with our values as a family. And so this is when you can take this book just for what it is.
Kelly (52:40.386)
Hmm.
Kelly (52:46.751)
Yeah.
Kelly (52:52.746)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (52:59.102)
and understand that it's not something that we're gonna derive our own values from, right? It's just a story. And you are going to have to, in life, decide, like, is this something that I wanna believe and make part of my core value system and let it dictate how I feel about myself and others? Or is this just a fun story, like, you know, I don't know, Little Red Riding Hood or something like that, right? So,
Kelly (53:03.615)
Bye.
Kelly (53:24.822)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (53:28.198)
being able to have those moments where we can pause and like dive deeper, you know, we always hear the term like the rabbit trails of home education, like, you know, we can kind of go down a different path for a minute and really talk about something that's, you know, important to us or to our family and be able to have that conversation. And I think kids really appreciate that because we're not talking down to them.
Kelly (53:48.012)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (53:56.138)
We're kind of involving them in a conversation. We're sparking questions. Like you were saying, like, what do you think fat means? Like, and why do we think that? And, you know, being able to do that for all the things that we're reading and digesting on a daily basis through different curriculums and YouTube videos and books that we read, it's nice to be able to start to say like, okay, you know, where, is this real or not? And I wish I could remember this story because we were, my youngest was talking to me about something.
Kelly (53:56.554)
Really?
Ashley Vanerio (54:26.166)
that she saw in The Lion Guard. And she was like, well, something about like, I know hippopotamuses are friends with lions. And I was like, well, not in real life, right? Just in the show. And she was like, oh, really? And so it's like, you know, I was like, oh, they can be friends, it's okay, only four. But you know, it was one of those things where, you know, it's.
Kelly (54:40.059)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kelly (54:45.524)
No!
Ashley Vanerio (54:55.57)
They do believe a lot of what they, almost probably everything, right? Of what they read and see and so kind of starting to slowly dribble some kind of realistic conversations around there will hopefully help them, you know, get to that point. I'm not, I'm not going to crush her dream though yet about the hippopotamus and the lion. So, just too cute.
Kelly (55:00.8)
Yeah...
Kelly (55:18.014)
Oh, cute. Yeah, I think you really summarised that well. And I think it's just so important, isn't it, that we have these conversations with our kids. And I guess this is why I truly believe that home-educated kids aren't sheltered, I guess, is because the people who are home-educating, who are conscious and trying to enlighten themselves further and are doing the work to
Kelly (55:47.154)
everything about the existence we have in our society and the way that we all treat each other and doing all this work and like 95% of the home educators I've met are doing that. Like I don't know how many of them are not that are determined to raise their children in a kinder, more nourishing, more aware way.
that surely that is the opposite of sheltered. And I think it's, they're basically trying to help them really be aware of the world around them and people and the needs of their communities and that it is absolutely our responsibility not to say like that none of this stuff exists. Like we can't just hide from it and that's naive. Like there are things which are going to be getting to our kids whether we like it or not.
messages that we don't like and things that we would, as you say, that we absolutely do not want to have downloaded into their core values. We certainly don't want them judging people for those things, etc. So we have got work to do to pause the book and to speak to them about these things and to ask them questions and to check in with them and to ask them sometimes like what have you read or seen lately that's maybe worried you or has started some questions in your head or whatever, right? So we have these responsibilities.
And I think that ultimately, as long as we continue to take our children's education in every meaning of that word seriously, like we absolutely do, like we're here listening to this podcast for a reason, like I know that every single one of you listening absolutely takes it seriously, then as you recognise there is a hole in something that you maybe haven't talked to them about or...
Ashley Vanerio (57:24.171)
Right.
Kelly (57:35.438)
actually you realise that this is a conversation that needs to be had or whatever, then you'll have it. And do you know what, you're going to have that connection with your kids that's going to be that much deeper and that much more open to what you've got to say. Like I know that I'm not going to feel any shame or fear about being real and treating my children with respect and talking to them about things that are important.
I know I'm not going to have any qualms about doing those things at any point. Like I'm not going to feel worried about doing that because I'm going to know them well enough to talk to them about anything that I need to talk to them about. So I guess it's just a case of having some faith in yourself that, so if you are worried about this and you are actually thinking like you are worried that your children are not going to get some of the experiences that you think are quite formative, then write them down, stick them on a list somewhere of things that you definitely want to make sure your child has experienced.
by the time they reach adulthood, right? And go out of your way to find them, go out of your way to make them happen. Go and volunteer in a place that means that they get some experience taking care of the elderly or disabled people, like help get them to go and take care of pets, get them to do whatever, right? Get them to go and live in the real world like they are, but expand it however you're seeing holes in it. Just go find stuff and just trust that no matter what-
Ashley Vanerio (58:33.87)
All right.
Kelly (59:00.554)
they might be experiencing in school. We do not need to toughen up our children. We do not need to build the resilience that way. That's not resilience, it's trauma. And it doesn't have the outcome that people are thinking it does. And anybody who's telling you that it does really just is so stuck in the beliefs that things toughen you up and then you're able to do really cool things. It's just not true that we are able to build those skills in a way that doesn't cause...
Ashley Vanerio (59:12.992)
Yeah.
Kelly (59:29.446)
lasting damage to our bodies and minds. Simple as that really.
Ashley Vanerio (59:33.198)
Yeah, and that's true for whether you home educate or not, right? I mean, you can do this while you're reading stories at bedtime or while you're at the park on a Saturday and, you know, anything like that. So, yeah.
Kelly (59:47.215)
I see.
Kelly (59:50.506)
Brilliant. Well, thanks so much, guys. As always, we love that you guys are listening. We're getting a really decent amount of people listening each week now, which is really exciting. So do please keep sharing it, keep giving us our ratings to help us to get ranked in the different areas so people know that we exist. And we will continue to bring you an episode every week. We may take a break for a couple of weeks here and there, but we will then mostly be giving you one every Sunday. So I really hope to.
continue to have you as a listener and come and follow us. So I'm at Offroading Motherhood on Instagram and on TikTok, I am banish.home.ed.burnout and Ashley is homeschool.in.progress on Instagram. So do come and find us, come and tell us what's going on with you and yeah, come and tell us what you thought off the back of this episode. See you again next week. Take care guys, bye.
Ashley Vanerio (01:00:43.47)
Hi, can you leave it? I just wanna record the story for the park I wrote down. I just had my thoughts together. So I was thinking of being, so you kind of passed it over to me and then I'll just, so I'll just record something now and I can plug it back in. So, all right, let me think here. Yeah, so we were recently visiting Birdworld and they have this lovely park there that the kids just love. And because it's,
Kelly (01:00:50.796)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:01:13.774)
half term or I guess end of term, term break. Now, a lot of the school children were there and it was a much busier park than we were used to, I should say. And there is this little bridge that you can walk across and you can enter it from either angle. And there was my daughter on one side and another boy on the other side.
and she wanted to cross and he said, oh, it's my turn or no, you can't or something. And she just stood up, stomped her foot, hands on hips and was like, I am strong and I can do whatever I want. And I was like, okay, that's a little aggressive, but you know, all the power to you. Like she was absolutely not letting this boy go first. And so.
I believe he was there before she was. And so I looked at her and I said, well, let's just, let me just ask you, was he there before you? Because I think it was his turn. And she was like, well, I'm going right after then. And so he then crossed and she was, and then she went around and it, but it was just very, um,
Kelly (01:02:12.202)
Mmm.
Kelly (01:02:21.281)
Mm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:02:33.842)
Yeah, I just want to say aggressive, I guess is the best term, but she was determined to go across this bridge in her own time. So yeah, definitely something that was a bit shocking, but also yeah, pretty amazing. So good experience at the park.
Kelly (01:02:36.509)
I'm sorry.
Ashley Vanerio (01:02:56.539)
Was that short enough? Should we do it again shorter?
Kelly (01:02:58.034)
Yeah, it's fine. No, it's fine. We've got, I think it cleaned about 40 minutes or so with a couple of little tweaks out of it. As you might have been able to tell, I'm trying not to say my kids' names anywhere. Then I accidentally said, Rosie, I don't know why I did that. It's so funny, because I consciously made an effort not to, like the time before, and then I bloody well did like two seconds later, and I'm just like...
Ashley Vanerio (01:03:10.099)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:03:21.886)
I know, I did the same thing. It's so hard, because you're just used to saying your name. I tried to, I think I marked it. So, let me go in and we'll remember to listen for it. To take it out. Yeah, that's fine.
Kelly (01:03:25.394)
Mm-hmm. Oh, thank you.
Yeah, that's fine, I'll take it out. But other than that, I think it was good apart from the fact that we're hilariously tied again, right? I mean...
Ashley Vanerio (01:03:39.506)
I know. It's so hard though during the day because there's so much going on.
Kelly (01:03:42.866)
Oh it is. I was thinking about whether or not we do it in 12 episode blocks, where we do 12 and then we take like a month's break and then we do another 12. Just for our own sanities really, because stuff's going to come up and I'm thinking you've obviously got your travelling and stuff because you're going back to the States and that for a while as well so...
Ashley Vanerio (01:03:51.07)
Mm-hmm. That's good.
Ashley Vanerio (01:03:56.686)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:02.27)
Yeah.
Kelly (01:04:08.542)
obviously going to be different time zones for a bit and I know that's probably going to make it a bit trickier so I thought we'd just, I mean it might be fine but we just, I'm just thinking it'll give us a bit of a break because I'm away a lot in June and I'm thinking what was it, we started what is it roughly mid-March, this would be April, May, June, I reckon we could probably get organised and done and then just take June off or something and then we can pick up again in July or
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:16.383)
Yes.
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:20.398)
Yeah, that's fine.
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:28.232)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:34.358)
That's right.
Kelly (01:04:37.671)
Augusto.
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:37.69)
Yeah, I mean, I saved like I saved the box because I'm like, I'll put it back in to put my suitcase. Um, so yeah, and then I think it'll work out pretty, pretty good because, um, for the most part, my mom is there. So like,
Kelly (01:04:43.606)
Yeah, brilliant.
Kelly (01:04:53.118)
Yeah, so you'll have a bit more time actually, probably we have more time.
Ashley Vanerio (01:04:56.538)
Yeah, like, I mean, if it's like afternoon for me and evening for you, I can just leave her with them in the pool. Go upstairs and record. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So.
Kelly (01:05:03.774)
Yeah, and go and get a few hours, get some stuff done. For purpose that we can just try and like really make sure we do a consolidated session where we can just say, right, we are literally doing, we're gonna sit down for four hours one afternoon and we're gonna bosh out four episodes and make sure we're happy and they're all done. And then we can get them ready and prepped. Let's say, I think we're getting more and more natural in the back and forth, chatting, laughing, getting more involved with talking to each other. I think we're getting the hang of it now. So I think.
Ashley Vanerio (01:05:15.531)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (01:05:22.93)
Yeah.
Kelly (01:05:34.098)
Soon enough this is going to feel so relaxed and we'll just, we won't need to mentally prep so much, we'll just be like right these are our talking points, let's, I liked this, this helped, just to keep bringing us back to like that's what we were going to talk about next.
Ashley Vanerio (01:05:34.453)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (01:05:38.251)
What?
Ashley Vanerio (01:05:42.966)
And then we go, yeah, definitely. I think the outline is huge just to keep us on track. And then my friend from Italy, she was like, I really love your podcast because it just sounds like a conversation between friends. And I was like, yeah, I think that's kind of what we're going for, right? Just raising some awareness around some things that we're interested in and hopefully leaving the listener.
Kelly (01:06:00.043)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:06:11.682)
thinking about how that applies to them and what they can do to either lean into something or lean away from something. We want it just to be like, yeah, you're just listening into a friend's conversation. So she was like, yeah, that's what it's like. I love it.
Kelly (01:06:16.578)
Mm.
Kelly (01:06:25.835)
Yeah.
Kelly (01:06:30.31)
Well that's nice. I was gonna say we've had some, we've had a few really nice comments. I haven't checked to see if there's been any more recently but um, but we're doing okay. I mean um, let me have a look at the numbers.
Kelly (01:06:43.966)
You know, 117 downloads total.
Ashley Vanerio (01:06:47.726)
That's really good.
Kelly (01:06:49.65)
Yeah, this is great. We've released six episodes, technically five, but with a bonus one.
Ashley Vanerio (01:06:56.45)
Mm hmm. Just coming on up.
Kelly (01:07:00.31)
So yeah, I mean, the success and failure one is 16, beliefs versus facts is 13, imagining the future so far is nine, but it hasn't had very long. So it's only had like four days. So we've got at least 10 people plus who are actively seeking it out within a day or two of it going live each week. So we've definitely got a bit of momentum going with a few people. And then hopefully.
Ashley Vanerio (01:07:10.783)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:07:18.492)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly (01:07:29.83)
It's, but the thing is it's like anything. So content's an interesting one because like, for example, I'm in a group at the moment, we're learning about kind of TikTok and Instagram and just making sure we're doing the right things to get seen and everything. And like Instagram was, was just like, the algorithms are really annoying because you have to be getting that instant ranking, commenting, like people interacting with it. Like you need people doing that. Otherwise it just goes, oh, this isn't.
Ashley Vanerio (01:07:41.193)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (01:07:47.671)
They are.
Kelly (01:07:59.178)
this isn't worth pushing to people, which is so frustrating. And so like Instagram came up with a little bubble the other day that was like, do you want to join the views challenge? And I was like, hell yeah, I do. Because if I join your stupid challenge, then you're going to give me more views. Like a hundred percent, like because I'm actively trying to do it on that, that you're going to make sure I get seen more. So I do, I get my, my little badges and then I obviously want to do even more. Like it's an addictive thing. Like they're obviously trying to get me to do more.
Ashley Vanerio (01:08:02.702)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (01:08:17.73)
Yep.
Kelly (01:08:27.702)
And literally I said yes and the past four or five reels have gotten like 1500 views. I'm just like, gosh, you're so ridiculous, these things. It's just irritating. So like TikTok, it's called like the 200 view jail. So you get stuck. Shall I stop recording? Are we good for the night? I'm just thinking, save the day.
Ashley Vanerio (01:08:34.67)
Oh, so annoying, right?
Ashley Vanerio (01:08:46.134)
Yeah, yeah, stop recording, yeah.
