Kelly Rigg (00:00.306)
Hello everybody, welcome to the big Home Ed conversations. This week we are going to be talking to you about Western culture and how we basically find ourselves a little bit kind of torn sometimes in our parenting and our way of life and how that can really kind of come across into our home ed world. So often so many people get worried about screens or they might get worried about making sure they're getting enough time outside or whatever it might be.
But how these things actually have a really, really deep root and they're actually really important. They're really, really valid and important things to be considering as a home educating parent about how your ethos and your kind of personal culture, your personal values, and also your needs, your actual physical needs will tie into your ability to cope, your ability to keep your patients, the ability to deal with the challenges that your kids may throw at you.
So as always I am Kelly and I'm here with Ashley.
Ashley Vanerio (01:02.819)
Hi everyone.
Kelly Rigg (01:04.562)
And yeah, so we're all just having a bit of a week here. So first and foremost, apologies for skipping a week. For those of you who are following along, you'll have noticed I've had an absolute palaver. My little one actually ended up in hospital last week. So he's doing fine now. He's back and running around like absolutely nothing happened. Thank goodness. But it definitely was a bit of a hairy few days for me. So apologies, everyone, for vanishing for a moment.
Ashley Vanerio (01:26.755)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (01:34.354)
But yes, I mean, this one came up as a conversation that we were chatting about, well, basically this incredible homesteading conference that I was listening to last year that was talking about how when you're kind of interested in homesteading and maybe you're thinking about getting involved with it, that actually you're already a homesteader if once in a while you like to do things the hard way. And I was like, oh, that's fascinating. It was a nice kind of thought about it. But basically it was talking about how we...
sometimes choose to maybe, I don't know, you prefer to walk instead of drive or maybe you prefer to bake a loaf instead of going and buying one at the shops.
Kelly Rigg (03:01.682)
So this idea of actually kind of taking your time to do an action means that you're already a homesteader, you're actually already carrying the vibe. And it really made me smile at the time because it's just like, oh, yay, I get to call myself a homesteader when I'm already basically just growing a few veggies and I like to bake a loaf instead of buying it, that kind of thing. And it's so nice to kind of really think about how the past few years, one of the biggest parts of my self -growth journey has been slowing down.
Ashley Vanerio (03:15.715)
Hehehehehe
Kelly Rigg (03:30.13)
enough to actually see, feel, touch, notice things that are going on around me. I realised that a big part of our Western culture is this kind of hustle on through this fast tracking that we kind of get your head down and get on with your job, get on with your like, so obviously when your kids are little, it's like get on with this because you need to learn this so that you can move on to this and then get this grade and then go to this class and go to this job that they are on a fast track and we're all put on this treadmill.
and every now and then someone just turns it up a notch. And we just kind of run along and we just keep going. And so one of the big things that Home Ed has done for me personally is to slow me down. I don't know if that's something that you've noticed as well, Ashley if you found that Home Ed has helped you to actually sort of stop and smell the roses a little bit.
Ashley Vanerio (04:19.363)
Yeah, I think that it definitely allows for a less hustle and bustle approach to your day, which just naturally then bleeds into the ability to appreciate the weather that you might be having that day or appreciate that it's a bank holiday, so we don't have our regular activities this Monday. So instead of...
going to art class, maybe we will make some cookies or something like that. So I think that there's this kind of, it just sort of happens naturally, even if you don't mean for it to, because you're not having this rush to get out the door in the morning, your approach, don't get me wrong, mornings can still be stressful. I still have to remind my children to get dressed, okay? But make the beds, wipe the toothpaste out of the sink, all of those things.
Kelly Rigg (05:09.17)
ya gonna go to bed. go to bed.
Definitely, yes.
Ashley Vanerio (05:18.307)
But there is a flexibility to your day that allows for you to say, like right now I'm staring out the window at gorgeous sunshine and I'm thinking, okay, when we're done with this, if it's still sunny, all my kids can go outside. So we're not driven by the clock. And I think that there's just a natural allowance for you to take a breath here and there and.
have your kids help you cook dinner. And so sometimes that turns into them saying like, oh, well, I'd really like cornbread with the dinner tonight. Okay, well, let's get a recipe and make it. And then you're doing a Google search and they're interacting with the computer in that way to find something. And then they're having to measure out the flour or whatever you're using. And so I think that that definitely helps to have a better.
approach to, or maybe not better, but you know, an appreciation and an ability to kind of have a slower day, if you will.
Kelly Rigg (06:22.418)
Yeah, meandering through stuff that you don't have to like, stick to a set pace, you don't have to have a set outcome. Sometimes you can just exist in your own skin. That's so lovely for our kids to experience that and for us to experience that. I mean, I was thinking the other day, I saw a great post about someone was saying about that they don't have the Sunday scare ease anymore. And
Ashley Vanerio (06:29.507)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (06:35.459)
Exactly.
Ashley Vanerio (06:47.459)
Yes.
Kelly Rigg (06:48.69)
Oh my goodness, I just found myself thinking my children are never gonna know what that feels like. That dread of like Monday mornings coming around and you're tired and maybe you've got to go and deal with someone who you don't like dealing with or maybe you've got a teacher who's not great and makes you feel rubbish or maybe you're just really stressed about spelling test or whatever. And like I sat down with Myte yesterday evening and was like, okay, Harry Potter quiz time. We're gonna do some spellings. And so the answers.
Ashley Vanerio (07:07.907)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (07:14.499)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (07:17.81)
to the questions are going to be words for you to write out and spell basically. And I kept saying to my oldest, my youngest letter she's four, so spelling is not even a thing yet. So she was drawing the pictures, so she was drawing picture of the answers, but she was verbally answering the questions. So she was switched on and she was enjoying the quiz. But he basically was like, I said, right, are you done? You had enough? And he goes, no, more questions. I'm just like, okay, cool. And he literally did like 20 odd words.
Ashley Vanerio (07:22.915)
of fun.
Kelly Rigg (07:47.378)
And sure, okay, not following a set curriculum, not following a certain pattern of learning how these types of words are spelled and other type of words are spelled, but who cares? Like he demonstrated to me good spelling and good ability on a bunch of different words. And he had fun whilst he did it. And nobody felt stressed or upset or irritated or worried about it. And it's, you know what I mean? Like it's just, it was just a fun after dinner activity just to kind of hang out at the table for a little bit longer.
Ashley Vanerio (08:06.659)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (08:14.115)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (08:14.162)
And I think that so much about our Western culture is that we're supposed to kind of just find ways to kind of like, I don't know, like you're supposed to be learning whilst driving, or you're supposed to be answering emails whilst commuting, or you're supposed to be like, I don't know, like having a work phone call whilst cooking dinner. That you're not allowed to ever just be present in something. Like if you love to cook dinner from scratch,
Ashley Vanerio (08:27.459)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (08:40.434)
you might find yourself actually resenting it. Like I've had times as a parent, especially that I resent having to think what's for dinner every night. And that's born from the fact that I've got so many things that I'm supposed to be doing or achieving as a grownup. Actually cooking something from scratch feels a little bit frustrating. And to think like, where did it go so wrong? Where humans went from obviously making from scratch dinner, usually with things they grew in their own gardens.
Ashley Vanerio (08:47.011)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (09:08.338)
that might have cultivated or literally had to walk a mile to go and get from the local grocery shop or whatever to come back and make the bread from scratch. And all of a sudden, they were like, this was normal. This was just life. And someone obviously decided along the way that it was, I don't know, inconvenient to do this. So they found a way to mass produce bread. And then they decided that actually people don't want to have to grow their own vegetables. They want to be able to just go and get them from a greengrocer's because then they can work longer hours. And...
Ashley Vanerio (09:19.523)
Yep.
Kelly Rigg (09:34.994)
then the wife can go out to work as well, right? So like it all kind of, people put these solutions, like solve problems in the history. And obviously humans seem to be just on this massive great expedition to make everything easy, to stop everything from having any kind of effort associated with it. And you don't want to open a can yourself. Cool, we've got a gadget for that. If you, you know what I mean? Like there's something for everything. And of course, when it comes to mobility and...
Ashley Vanerio (09:38.211)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (09:55.043)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (09:59.779)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (10:03.474)
disability and things, some of these things have been essential and obviously really, really helpful. So I'm not saying they should all just disappear. But what we can find ourselves doing is constantly therefore looking for the easy option, a way to make the situation simpler and require less effort so that we can do more things at once. And I think that this is actually really damaging. I don't think it's doing us any good.
Ashley Vanerio (10:31.139)
Yeah, and it makes me think of like, when you were talking about, you know, going to get stuff at the local grocers and it's, it makes me think of the conversations that you might have with like your parents or your grandparents that are saying, you know, when I was your age, we did this and this and this and you know, you're complaining about these things, but like, you know, we walked, you know, uphill both ways to school that crazy conversation, right? But when you think about it, the demands on them at that time were very different than the demands that are
you know, we have and then that our children will have. And so there is, I think, I don't, and I'm saying this just because I don't think you can compare from generation to generation because of how things are shifting so dramatically in the world, in technology, especially obviously, right? From, you know, one year to the next. So, you know, growing up at the age my children are now, I never sat in front of the computer, maybe for typing.
Kelly Rigg (11:17.426)
Mm.
Ashley Vanerio (11:30.499)
But it was not something that I came home and did anything on my, as a seven year old or a 10 year old, and I wasn't typing the papers on my computer. And so I think that as things shift in the world, as we kind of do migrate more towards technology, more towards these other things.
Kelly Rigg (11:31.186)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (11:54.819)
you know, we're gonna have similar conversations with our kids that our parents had with us and their parents had with them of like, well, when I was young and things were this way, and, you know, now you just go buy a loaf of bread, but we had to make it, you know, but there's actually some beauty to be appreciated in that slower approach. There's a lot of reward that you can feel in creating these things. I see it with my children, like when...
Kelly Rigg (12:03.346)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (12:20.131)
The other day they made scones and every time they eat one, I can see they're excited about it and they feel like they've accomplished something and they're physically seeing that outcome, which is important, I think, especially as a little sidetrack. But when you think about education, it is a marathon, not a sprint, right? And a lot of the things that they're studying, you don't see that reward right away.
Kelly Rigg (12:26.194)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (12:47.267)
You don't teach a kid to read and the next day they know how to read, right? It's a progression. And so I think giving them these little wins is also really valuable. So sometimes we just need to look back at like, what were some of the things that we used to do years ago as children? And can we still do some of those things today? Can we make time for it?
Kelly Rigg (12:47.954)
No.
Kelly Rigg (12:52.274)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (13:11.826)
Yeah, I love that. And I think one of the things which we can really see as being a problem in our today's society is technology and the idea that it's, so like you said, kind of like quick wins and things. I mean, I get, I kind of, on a flip to that, I get really frustrated with things like YouTube, that obviously, they are a bit of a kind of a frustrating kind of quick win in our kids' eyes sometimes, aren't they? Like, there's some things in there that...
Ashley Vanerio (13:37.539)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (13:39.986)
is basically it's a satiating thing in my opinion. So I know that there's obviously a lot of people kind of get stressed about this obviously the same way people used to get stressed about kids reading too much because they were getting lost in imaginary worlds that weren't relevant to their day to day life and they didn't want to fill their heads with lofty ideas of romance and those are the different thoughts and different ideas that people used to worry about that. They used to worry about them getting lost in these worlds.
Ashley Vanerio (14:00.451)
mmhm going to go ahead and close the video. to go ahead and close the video.
Kelly Rigg (14:09.074)
So much like we get stressed about kids using technology in a lot of ways these days, we see it as happening, oh, it's far too much time to go ahead on a screen or whatever. That actually our kids can get so much from them. And I think that what's really fascinating to the point of this ramble was actually me saying that obviously when it comes to technology progressing, kids use it and they know how to do things on it that we have no idea how they've done it. Like my kid did something on my mouse.
my like touch mouse thing on my laptop the other day and I was like, how did you do that? Like, what did you just do with your fingers? Like, that was really cool. Like, I don't know how to do that before. And he goes, oh, you just do this. I'm just like, what? How do you know this? But they're so smart and they can develop so many abilities through it. But that it can also have these really negative, like I say, it's sort of satiating elements. So they get sucked away from baking and making and...
Ashley Vanerio (14:41.091)
mm hm.
Kelly Rigg (15:06.098)
feeling the grass beneath their toes and understanding what time of day it is and feeling their body sensations. Like I know that my two, if I literally just left them to their own devices all day, every day, then for a very long time, and I swear it probably take a couple of weeks of them literally just watching it constantly for them to maybe actually look up properly and go, wait, I'm bored now. Like, can we do something else? Like, can we go out today? Like.
Ashley Vanerio (15:30.691)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (15:33.394)
I know that there's a lot of argument for completely unrestrained social screen time, et cetera, but I honestly, with two ADHD autistic children, it just isn't really going to work for us. It causes a lot of issues. And least of all, they just, they just literally were talking like literal accidents. They won't eat. They won't go and have any water. Like they literally won't move at all. So it gets really bad. And I ended up basically kind of finding myself just being like, okay, enough is enough.
Ashley Vanerio (15:56.579)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (16:03.89)
you guys need to feel your feelings, feel your body. Like, what is it trying to tell you? And like, they'll turn it off and be like, oh, I'm really hungry. And like, suddenly bonkers like racing around the house chasing each other and just like, ah. So from our perspective, yes, you could argue that obviously it helps to regulate them, maybe in terms of behaviors that we find difficult to tolerate, in terms of noise and loud playing and et cetera. But actually it doesn't regulate them from the perspective of.
it actually numbs them to a lot of their bodily sensations. And so many things these days, like ultra -processed food, for example, numbs our guts and our brains. It stops us from craving the right foods. And it creates sort sort of a satiation again from sugars and salts and things that stop us from then actually wanting fruit or wanting...
Ashley Vanerio (16:34.723)
Exactly.
Kelly Rigg (16:58.738)
to make that thing from scratch and have something that's got less ingredients in it. Like there's all kinds of stuff in there that's tricking us that way too. Very waffly today, I do apologise. But the point is that they are trying to fight past a lot of that these days. And we can easily forget that we are human beings, that we are animals, that we exist on this planet the same as every other animal exists on this planet. And just because our existence looks a little different.
Ashley Vanerio (16:59.011)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (17:29.251)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (17:29.33)
it doesn't mean that we shouldn't pay attention to the natural rhythms and the rituals and the seasons and the cycles. Women obviously go through monthly cycles, we go through yearly cycles, life cycles, obviously with puberty and pregnancy and menopause, etc. And obviously men do too, but in a lesser way, kind of of hormonally. But we are human beings, we're creatures.
Ashley Vanerio (17:41.795)
Mm -hmm.
Yep. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (17:50.915)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (17:55.698)
And so much of our current society is asking us really to ignore it, to just put it on a back burner. If we ask our kids to do the same and stick them in a regimented, structured environment where they've got to do X, Y, Z every day, and then they come home and they numb themselves with a bit of screen time, it's totally understandable that people would say, yeah, that's fine, go do whatever you want to do, like they must be knackered, like totally respect why it happens.
But then they're literally just stuck in this endless kind of tamped down kind of vibe, like all the time. And we just have to be so careful of this, I think, as as our parenting evolves through technology and all the rest of it, that we don't kind of recognise that our children are human beings, they're creatures. It can be challenging.
Ashley Vanerio (18:29.795)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (18:41.475)
Right.
Ashley Vanerio (18:45.091)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I noticed this even like in my own like personal screen time. Like there have been times where at especially like, you know, obviously it's always towards the end of the day, right? When we're all ready to just unplug because we've been overstimulated the whole day as mothers and like, you know, we've heard the word mommy 550 times and we're getting the kids into bed. And I'll think to myself, like, why am I?
Kelly Rigg (18:54.802)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (19:14.467)
like so easily aggravated in this moment. I've asked them to put their pajamas on. One kid did it, the other kid's brushing their teeth, the other one's like walking around naked with their pants on their head or something, right? And why am I so aggr - like why am I not just appreciating that they're being silly? And this is their way of kind of dealing with this transition right at this moment, right? Why can't I just be silly with them and be like, you know, play a little bit and then help them get dressed, right?
Kelly Rigg (19:32.37)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (19:42.499)
And I was really thinking about this and I'm like, this is because I am wanting to get on my phone. Like I am sitting here like get into bed because I am ready to get on my phone. I'm ready to either read my book on my Kindle or, you know, scroll through Instagram or answer some emails or whatever the case might be. But that
Kelly Rigg (19:50.13)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (19:56.658)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (20:09.795)
is preventing me from enjoying this time with them that honestly might take 10 minutes more than if I just keep pushing, pushing, pushing and yelling, yelling, yelling and getting them into bed. And so I've tried to be really mindful of this and just sort of notice when I'm feeling that like aggravations start to brew up, like I just brush your teeth, pajamas on, it's every night the same, why aren't you doing it?
And maybe like that silliness kind of helps, right? If we kind of play back and forth a little bit and then, and I really enjoy reading stories at night. I love reading books to my kids. I like that, but there are times when I'm like, you took too long to get ready and now it's nine o 'clock. You were supposed to be in bed, let's call it, you know, 30 minutes or an hour ago. And I'm not going to spend 20 minutes reading you stories because then it's going to be nine 30 before you're even remotely falling asleep. And so I think like that.
Kelly Rigg (20:48.21)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (20:58.098)
Mm.
Ashley Vanerio (21:06.851)
Um, yeah, that's just been something that I've noticed. I certainly noticed it in my partner as well. And like just trying to step away from that, like at that obsession, right? It just, you don't even notice it, but it does pull you in. It's such an instant gratification, um, to be able to unplug for a minute and just have that like, you know, numbing, yeah, effect. So, but it, it can, it can impact.
Kelly Rigg (21:33.746)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (21:36.483)
the parenting and that last connection with your kids before bed in a really meaningful way if you let it. So, yeah.
Kelly Rigg (21:43.09)
the thing and it's not as say like in in our house I know from my own experience that's not even just bedtime in our house like the amount of times during my day that I can feel myself retreating and getting the urge to go on a screen um that if I if I'm left with a few hours to myself say like a random miracle happens um I will be so drawn to just going on a computer and playing a game or going and watching some tv and that is okay sometimes at the end of the day we we don't
Ashley Vanerio (21:54.403)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (22:08.739)
Mm.
Kelly Rigg (22:12.146)
We don't actually get to do it very often in a very meaningful way. Like going and watching a couple of hours of telly is like, I barely ever do that. But that's fine. If that's genuinely, if like, if you're knackered, you've been busy, like you just want to go lay down on the sofa and have a nice cup of tea and just relax and watch some programs, that's cool. Like I'm not criticizing it at all because we do it and we love it for a reason. But I think that the truth is that if you just find yourself not knowing what to do with your time,
Ashley Vanerio (22:16.387)
Yeah.
Unheard of.
Kelly Rigg (22:39.186)
and you know you're going to go in and clean the kitchen or you're going to go and sit and watch some telly and so you force yourself to just go and sit and watch some telly so that you don't just waste that bit of time to yourself cleaning something or doing something boring. That you might find yourself never actually having any kind of real connection to anything but actually you're fed up and irritated with the kids and you're fed up and irritated even when you get time to yourself and that's basically telling you that actually you're
Ashley Vanerio (22:58.627)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (23:08.402)
not doing anything currently that actually makes you feel alive, that you don't feel like your time is worth much, like you're bored, you're fed up, you're restless, like there's a lot shouting at us in those moments to have more. But as we say, like we get so absorbed with kind of the multitasking and we fill up our calendars so much and don't leave any room that actually we end up not having any time to be slow.
Ashley Vanerio (23:23.843)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (23:36.914)
to cook a different recipe, to read a book, to make something, do some art, create something with some, I don't know, like do some sewing or whatever it is you might do, right? Like there's so many things that we could be doing with our time, but a lot of the skills have been lost generationally because people just buy everything now. And things are considered hobbies. So then you feel like you're not allowed to do them because you've got other things that are more important that you should be doing.
Ashley Vanerio (23:37.251)
Mm.
Ashley Vanerio (23:46.083)
Great.
Ashley Vanerio (23:53.763)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (24:05.187)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (24:05.906)
And it just creates all these just really frustrating moments when we just aren't able to meet our needs and we don't even know what they are. And actually we've forgotten what we enjoy and we don't even know how to fix a lot of the sensations we're getting in our bodies because we've just never done anything with them. Like you were literally, they were trained out of you from a young age and now you literally have them sitting there nagging you feebly from the back shelf being like, can we go move our bodies? And you're going, oh, I can't be bothered.
Like I'm so tired, I'm just gonna go lounge and watch something on the telly. And you ignore that ache or that tension in those muscles or you whatever, right? And it's depressing really, it is depressing. And that's why obviously so many of us live with chronic depression and anxiety issues is because we're not meeting our needs, but we don't even know what they are. A lot of the time we can't access them anymore. And I think this is what's really quite scary. And this is, I think what the point of this conversation for sure was, was that...
Ashley Vanerio (24:36.387)
Right.
Ashley Vanerio (24:57.411)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (25:05.17)
Because we are so detached from what human beings are without conditioning, without rules, without expectations on us, we actually can struggle sometimes to know how to support our children with their education and support them going forward. I mean, like, are human beings truly monogamous? Like, if you look at swans, swans tend to mate for life. So they find a partner, they tend to reconnect every year and they mate more babies. But...
Is that how human beings are supposed to be? Or is that just what the church made us feel like it was wrong if we weren't that way? So is that how we're supposed to actually exist? So just as a random example, like with our kids, are kids supposed to behave a certain way? Are they supposed to be able to read by the time they're 10? Or is this just an arbitrary line in the sand that somebody has decided at some point is how they're supposed to be? When it comes to infant feeding,
Ashley Vanerio (25:44.387)
Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Rigg (25:59.954)
Like the idea of feeding a baby a bottle every three hours came from a doctor who was working at how to keep babies alive in an orphanage. Literally alive, not nourished, not cared for, not soothed, but alive. And it got leaked out as a standard, this is what you should do. And so a generation or so of parenting and many more since have been left feeling like this is what we should be doing.
Ashley Vanerio (26:07.683)
Right.
Ashley Vanerio (26:13.891)
We'll see you next time.
Kelly Rigg (26:29.426)
I'm wondering why it's not working. Why they haven't got calm, relaxed babies. So like you can look into all these things. Obviously everything has a roots, everything has a story behind it. And this is obviously where we have to be really mindful of actually making a decision about what feels good for us. Because there's so many things that are getting in the way that are stopping us from enjoying our lives and stopping us from actually being human.
Ashley Vanerio (26:33.219)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (26:59.218)
in our own individual human experience.
Ashley Vanerio (27:03.843)
Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's an interesting point too, because there are so many external factors of just society today that play into that and that we just, you know, accept because it is the social norm, the standard that's been laid out for us. And that's not to say that some of those things aren't good and beneficial, but I do think that that's a lot of the things that as homeschoolers, we tend to...
examine a little differently because again, our situation is just different than those in a traditional schooling. We're able to look at our kids and say, okay, they need movement, let's take this outside, or, you know, they're losing focus on this, let's shift gears in a different way and come back to it. And they don't have that ability in a traditional school system to do that. And the requirements are becoming...
more demanding at a younger age. So when you look at, in the States anyway, preschools and kindergartens and what they're doing with children, sitting at a desk, doing writing and reading and math, it is very different even than when we were in school many years ago, right? It just seems like the age is lowering and the requirements are heightening.
when these children should be outside in nature interacting with the trees and the grass and the animals and having fresh air and the ability to have that movement and really get in touch with kind of who they are and just how their bodies work, right? And instead we're saying, no, sit down and get used to it because that's your next 70 years. So it is, it is, yeah, it can be scary, yeah.
Kelly Rigg (28:51.378)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (28:57.65)
There's a great book that I'm reading at the minute and he's basically explaining how like nowadays kids are being interviewed to go to preschool. Like they're literally looking for the right kids for that organisation. Like it was just so offensive in just about every possible way if I'm honest. But like the pressure, like I can't even begin to imagine the pressure on a parent.
Ashley Vanerio (29:07.779)
Yeah, yes.
Ashley Vanerio (29:16.195)
Thank you.
Ashley Vanerio (29:20.899)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (29:25.074)
taking their literal, what, three, four year old, like to be interviewed, to see how their behavior marries up, to see whether or not they'd be good enough to go to a certain establishment to be able to get like children who go to this preschool are more likely to go to Harvard or whatever nonsense. I mean, I just, it really is so confusing. And I just think, honestly, children are children and sure, some will be very academic and some will be hugely physically skilled.
Ashley Vanerio (29:28.387)
Mm -hmm, yeah, yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (29:43.459)
Right, yes.
Kelly Rigg (29:54.578)
and some will be very athletic and some will be really amazing people and really kind. And you know what I mean? Like there's a thousand and one different things that we get to be. And I just think it's all a bit sad that we've reached a point in our humanity where we spend so much time measuring ourselves against others or being measured, whether we're told about it or not in the moment, that we forget that actually.
Ashley Vanerio (30:02.659)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (30:18.051)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (30:24.018)
our existence is meant to be pleasurable. Like, we're supposed to be like the things that we can experience if we allow it and if we can find it, like the way that nature smells, the way that food tastes, the way that stuff feels when it brushes our skin, like these things are pleasurable and they're supposed to be. Like we don't experience pleasure for no reason. And actually it's really depressing that most of us spend most of our days not really feeling.
Ashley Vanerio (30:27.075)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (30:43.267)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (30:53.074)
any pleasure at all. We don't derive pleasure from our kids laughing because it's booming loud, or we don't derive pleasure from the dinner that we've just spent an hour making because someone's moaning and griping about it on the floor underneath the table and won't eat it. Like there's a thousand and one things that end up sucking the joy out of being alive. And I say all this like knowing that I do the same thing. Like I spent many of my days locked in a
Ashley Vanerio (30:58.659)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (31:07.523)
Right.
Kelly Rigg (31:22.898)
like next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing. And it's really hard. And this is a massive amount of work that goes into stopping yourself. And from my perspective, how I tend to look at it is micro moments. So I don't aim for massive transitional changes to my life. I do tiny micro changes. So I either just try.
Ashley Vanerio (31:25.123)
Yeah, it's hard to get out of that.
Kelly Rigg (31:50.002)
and spend one minute, the first minute when I sit down to eat my dinner, actually smelling it, tasting it, touching it, enjoying it, even if it's literally just the first couple of mouthfuls, like just a little micro mindful moment whenever I remember. And some days that's 10 times and some days it's none. But that really helps me to start to recognise what actually feels good for me. And I think when we look at our kids and we look at the way...
Ashley Vanerio (32:00.995)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (32:19.506)
their natural behaviors, the things that they will do. I think that the biggest and most important thing we can try and do is observe and watch because some of the stuff they're doing, if you really think about it, they are unmasked. They haven't been trained yet. And as home educating parents, we get to watch our kids be true, natural human children. Like, yes, of course, being...
Ashley Vanerio (32:38.787)
Right.
Kelly Rigg (32:47.506)
slowly but surely formed by our parenting and our previous dispositions and fears and schooly modes and stuff like that, but also, and obviously the community they live in. So like everything, they'll get their inputs, but ultimately they're not being trained to be a certain way. So actually, if you watch the way they respond to certain things, basically we just need to be more like them. We need to just notice how actually, okay, they can't sit still for...
Ashley Vanerio (33:13.347)
Mmm.
Kelly Rigg (33:17.938)
an hour and a half in a restaurant. How come I can sit still for an hour and a half in a restaurant? Why am I able to do that without getting restless? What's that about? And is it just an age thing? Is it just a patience thing? Or is it actually because you were trained to do it? And actually, is it not normal for us to want to sit for that long? You know, so like thinking about it and actually going, okay, is it actually, should I also be getting up and stretching my legs and moving around a little bit? Right.
Ashley Vanerio (33:40.483)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (33:47.058)
and start mimicking it a little bit and see if that helps you to kind of start to reconnect with things which actually would have once upon a time been very important to you, that you maybe weren't able to actually meet those needs.
Ashley Vanerio (33:47.299)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (34:00.643)
Yeah, and even there in that example, there's just the need for like the pleasure that you talked about. Like it is probably pleasurable for us to sit around a table and talk to friends or family and hear about their day and share stories, you know, that, you know, adage of like breaking bread and getting together with, you know, a bunch of girlfriends is so wonderful, right? We find pleasure in that, like, you know, spilling of the tea, right? And chatting about our experiences and our days and what happens to us.
But our children, they're not at the table with their peers normally. Normally it's us with our friends and our kids are just there along for the ride, even if we go out to dinner or something. Or even if it's at our dinner table, that pleasure for them is short -lived, right? And so I think that 10 -minute mark is probably the max. And just understanding that and appreciating that can help just give some grace, which I think I'm constantly trying to...
Kelly Rigg (34:45.618)
haha you.
Ashley Vanerio (34:59.203)
remind people that I don't want to throw anyone into the bus here, but like, you know know, older generations that might be at the table with us, like understand that I'm not going to yell at my child to sit still for an hour. You know, it just, it's not, it's not in their nature. They want it and they want to do, they want to run outside and go play in the yard. And that's great. Go do that. You know, let the grownups talk. It's better anyway. But yeah.
Kelly Rigg (35:07.922)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (35:25.17)
Yeah, and I think that's great, isn't it? And I think it helps it helps them to recognise that, like, how they're behaving isn't wrong. And that equally how we're behaving isn't wrong. And to give each other some respect for what we actually want in and need in each moment as well. And I think this is ultimately a really important part of being a home educating parent is to remember that you exist too. And so you're allowed to show them as well.
Ashley Vanerio (35:39.075)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (35:44.835)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (35:51.779)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (35:54.194)
like what you want and how your needs are not being met in certain situations as well. Which is another whole conversation in and of itself. But yeah, so I mean, I think, yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (36:03.843)
I was going to say, yeah, that's a huge, I think until you realize that and appreciate that as a home educator, I don't think you're going to be successful because you're going to either run out of steam, you're going to burn out, you're going to spin your wheels, you're going to get frustrated with yourself, with your kids. They really like that awareness and time for yourself and just respect for what you need as well is so, so important.
Kelly Rigg (36:13.842)
No.
Ashley Vanerio (36:32.739)
for it to be successful. So yeah, I think that's a crucial piece. It's a great point.
Kelly Rigg (36:36.882)
Yeah. Okay, guys, we'll wrap ourselves up on this subject here for today. But we'll certainly be revisiting elements of this from other views and other sides at some point. But do, as always, come and follow us, come and share with us what you've been thinking off the back of this. Our handles are at Offroading Motherhood on Instagram for myself and banish .home .ed .burnout on TikTok.
and Ashley is homeschool .in .progress on Instagram. So come and find us, come and send us a DM, tell us what you thought of the episode and obviously let us know what you loved, what maybe you want us to talk about in the future as well. We're always open to suggestions and we've got an ever expanding list of subjects that we're looking forward to recording for you. And then yeah, just tune in again as always next week and we'll be bringing you another episode. You guys take care, take care, bye bye.
Ashley Vanerio (37:34.179)
Bye.
