Kelly Rigg (00:01.238)
Hello everybody, welcome to the big home ed conversations. My name is Kelly and I'm here with Ashley.
And we are here to do our finale for this season. You're going to have to, those of you with OCD out there. I apologize for ending on an odd number. We missed one in the middle there and we are literally nose against the window of Ashley flying off to Italy in a couple of days. So we need to make sure that we've got this last episode recorded for you. So...
You'll just have to accept that there's 11 episodes of this series and I promise we'll make it an even number next time, it's bothering me too. So we are going to talk to you today about travelling with kids. We thought that we'd delve into some of our recent experiences and obviously what we're about to experience with various different things because there's been a couple of things really bothering me.
in the news recently about schools really cracking down on attendance and really not considering the reasons why parents are pulling their kids from school during term time and also actually how I personally believe it's absolutely nobody's business what a family does with their time. We opt into school, we utilise school if we want to and I certainly don't feel like anybody should be being fined if they decide to do something different with their kids for a couple of weeks. So,
We thought we'd talk about that a bit today and about the opportunities and experiences our kids get and actually the way it helps to cement learning as well and really help to give them experiences that stick in their brains when they physically get to experience it in person. But the so our funny story for this week. So we would like to bring you something as a little nugget of lived experience. And this week we get to mock me.
Ashley Vanerio (01:57.774)
So.
Kelly Rigg (01:59.894)
honestly, so I just literally got back from Norway, been away with the kids for a week on a cruise, which has been amazing. But I am a comedy of errors. So literally, I don't think I've ever been on a holiday where I haven't managed to maim myself at some point. And this time I literally did it in spectacular style. So the day that we were literally leaving without done in Southampton, and we've been literally getting our bags organized and ready, packed up from the hotel we've been staying in to go to the ship.
Ashley Vanerio (02:00.334)
Thank you.
Kelly Rigg (02:28.95)
and I managed to kick my suitcase and I broke two toes. Which is just absolutely astonishingly painful and they went very purple and they still hurt now so I know they're definitely not just stubbed toes but actually definitely broken. But you know, this is like proper mum tough nut zone right? Because I mean most people would think I think I might have broken my toes I think instead of getting on this ship we probably need to go to A &E.
Ashley Vanerio (02:35.47)
The worst.
Kelly Rigg (02:57.878)
And my brain was just like, nope, all they'll do is strap them up, even if they're broken, they won't do anything with it. So I'm getting on the ship, regardless. And as it was literally just the toes, it wasn't further up my foot. Obviously, if it was further up my foot, I really would not have been silly, but I literally have just soldiered on. But then, literally in our last pour, I twisted my ankle, my other foot, and I fell on my left knee and my left wrist, and I managed to injure myself in another spectacular way. So I've literally spent most of the week hobbling about.
Ashley Vanerio (03:04.974)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (03:28.398)
No.
Kelly Rigg (03:30.006)
I was like feeling so sorry for myself at this point because I still ache in a number of different places and should probably actually go to the hospital now for like a full body x -ray for the life injuries I've managed to sustain. But obviously all of that aside, we did have a wonderful time. It could have been a lot worse. I'm just very, very grateful that I didn't actually like actually really hurt myself and I'm in a way that would have been...
Ashley Vanerio (03:54.094)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (03:55.958)
unfixable in those situations. I mean, they can like airlift you out of cruise ships, but I don't think I ever want the embarrassment of having that happen to me. So yeah, definitely avoid that one. So yeah, so we thought obviously this week talking about the idea of
Ashley Vanerio (04:05.39)
Yeah, I know. Try to avoid that.
Kelly Rigg (04:16.246)
kind of traveling, but not just traveling. So I appreciate that obviously in trying to make sure we're being sensible and inclusive here and recognizing that not everyone has the opportunity to travel with their kids, especially in the current climate. There are just opportunities that are real and in person as well. So like we're going to kind of just refer to both at the same time. Because there's some stuff which I've observed this past week that has really reminded me why it was super important that I didn't feel like we had to carry on doing.
what I term as school, aka trying to make sure they do some reading, math, science, whatever, whilst we're away. Why I didn't spend a lot of time sort of like being teacher and trying to tell them loads of facts and figures and stuff as we're going around. I did a little bit because they were interested, they were asking good questions and stuff. But essentially, we have been learning about Norway for months, just various different angles like Vikings and the Ice Age and glaciers and...
like all kinds of different amazing things. And I have really, really enjoyed covering those topics with them. And I found myself, as we kind of got to Norway, I started to see all these amazing things. Just, A, witnessing them, putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Like when we hiked up to see a glacier, which is not a hilarious story, there's advertisers one and a half kilometers of walk and turned out to be five, up a frigging mountain.
Ashley Vanerio (05:42.702)
Great for the toes.
Kelly Rigg (05:43.862)
Yeah, with my broken toes. And then actually two days after I broke them. That aside. But yeah, the kids managed it, which I was really impressed by. But we went up to see this amazing glacier and as we kind of got up to quite near it, I was able to kind of point out to him the sort of U shape of the valley. Like you could really see the fact that it creates a U shape instead of a V shape, which is what you get when you have a river that goes through and carves the landscape instead.
And it was like, yeah, look, you can really see it. And like, you can see the striations on the rocks that we were climbing, clambering over that you can see where the glacier had moved along them and ground them away. Just really, really cool stuff that like we talked about, we'd seen in books, we'd seen a YouTube video about, but now we're physically seeing it, touching it, like experiencing it. And I think that this is one of the things about home education that I just adore.
I don't know about you, Ashley, I could actually have a word in edgeways at some point. But this idea of being able to physically do and go to the things that we talk about and have nobody telling us off for it, there is no guilt, there is no like, being naughty. It boggles, my mind boggles that someone could actually be fined real, whole, hard cash and even end up with a criminal record for taking their child.
Ashley Vanerio (06:40.91)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (06:59.15)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (07:05.23)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (07:10.038)
to see a glacier that they might have been learning about in school and to actually experience it for real. Like, I don't really understand what this world is coming to, if I'm honest.
Ashley Vanerio (07:21.998)
Yeah, that to me is just so, I don't, I get wild, like unexpected, unfathomable. We, I just think about in the States, if someone tried to find someone for taking their kid out of school, I just, it would be chaos. it really would be, it wouldn't, it wouldn't work. It wouldn't happen. I certainly don't know of any schools in the States that find you for missing.
Kelly Rigg (07:36.854)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (07:51.15)
and yeah, it's, it's just something where like the attendance rules there are definitely set by the state, typically the state law, but then each individual district, has a superintendent and they are kind of responsible for enforcing the attendance rules. And that's just something that.
Kelly Rigg (07:52.15)
amazing.
Ashley Vanerio (08:17.902)
you would never hear of someone being fined for missing classes. Especially if it's not that they're cutting class. It's not like we're not talking about a teenager missing a high school class. We're talking about a parent calling in and saying, we're going on vacation or we're going wherever it is to maybe visit families whose child is graduating, for example, and you want to bring your kids to see their cousin graduate, something like that.
Kelly Rigg (08:21.398)
This is crazy.
Kelly Rigg (08:33.11)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (08:47.79)
that, that seems pretty valid to me and just really not the school's business, frankly.
Kelly Rigg (08:52.758)
No, yeah I agree. I think there's so much of family life that we don't realise sometimes when we opt into school and it is an opt -in process that we're agreeing to give up a huge amount of our power and freedom and I think that what's really amazing actually more and more is parents are starting to recognise that actually elective home education is not as scary as people maybe have been thinking in the past.
And it's certainly not just a backup, a fallback plan if school doesn't work. And I really feel like more and more people are starting to recognize that actually that they are giving up a lot of their power by agreeing to send their children to school. Because you end up locked into this like what a schedule, a weekly routine. You've got to take home of your holiday breaks on the school holidays. You've got to find...
paid for childcare, if you need to carry on working through those holidays, like all of it really, it's just bonkers to me. But I think the kind of getting back to the topic, I suppose, and the idea of what they're gaining, I mean, it's really simple stuff too, right? I only noticed this towards the end of the week, but my youngest, she's four, and she can recognise like most of her numbers, but she was, she'd definitely model them up and more often than not, she'd ask me to confirm.
Ashley Vanerio (09:52.686)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (10:16.598)
had she got the right one. And obviously when you're on a cruise ship, it's got 18 floors minus deck 13. Cruise ships don't have a deck 13. I'm not sure if that's just a no deck 13 on any ship. Maybe it's just like a bit of a maritime superstition, but there is no deck 13. It took me two days of going downstairs to recognize that somehow we kept skipping from 14 to 12. That was quite amusing. But anyway, so they literally, they were recognizing their numbers, not only recognizing and like,
Ashley Vanerio (10:24.942)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (10:38.862)
Thank you.
Kelly Rigg (10:46.198)
pinpointing certain things like where the buffet was, where the swimming pool was, where the room was. But actually she was, I was saying right, we need deck eight and she was straightaway pressing deck eight and I was like, she's got it. Like she's actually recognizing her numbers. And like I kept saying to her, like I said to her, right, take me home. And she would literally get us in the lift. She'd press the right level, which is 12. And she'd take us back to 12, five, three, three, which is the room number.
She'd find it for me each time and she was just having such a laugh trying to find it and she'd go to the right side of the ship, she'd obviously work her way through so she was recognising the difference between odds and evens. There's all kinds of stuff that she was demonstrating an understanding of chronology, she was recognising her numbers better, she was more confident, she was gaining spatial awareness, navigation. There's so many things in that that she was picking up on.
Ashley Vanerio (11:14.83)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (11:25.87)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (11:42.198)
completely naturally in her own excited glee, like, with nobody kind of saying, like, right, what number's this? What number's this? But just her just doing it. And my goodness, the fighting over elevator buttons, like I will never experience anything quite like it. The excitement of getting to press a button. I said, I'm just going to get some installed on the wall at home, just for their own entertainment. They can just press buttons all day long. I'm sure it'll stop being funny after five seconds.
Ashley Vanerio (11:59.022)
Yes.
Ashley Vanerio (12:06.014)
Sure.
Kelly Rigg (12:11.99)
But you know, it's just stuff like that. It's little moments like that that make you like another great opportunity. Actually, I was talking to my son, there was a couple of speedboats that thought it'd be really funny to try and keep up with the speed with the cruise ship. And obviously it's massive. And the way it's going through the water is just so smooth and steady. And those speedboats were literally going hell for leather. They were right up out the water, like going as fast as they could, and they couldn't keep pace.
Ashley Vanerio (12:27.182)
Hmm.
Kelly Rigg (12:40.182)
with this ship and it was just, it was really amazing. Like it really made you realize how fast you were actually going. Like it was just so incredible. And he was really like, mommy, look, like they, they can't even keep up. Like, does it feel like we're going that fast? But we must be going really fast. It's just amazing. Like again, perspective, recognizing that houses were smaller. They looked like tiny little matchbox houses, but they didn't seem that far away. Like it felt really,
Ashley Vanerio (12:40.558)
No.
Ashley Vanerio (13:05.998)
Great.
Kelly Rigg (13:09.494)
weird because you're so high off the water and it's just anyway, it just really fascinating stuff about kind of perspective and recognizing things in your environment and just the curiosities and there's just so much and I just think that there's no way in a thousand years that we could have watched a YouTube video or read a book or talked about it in a class setting and they would take in even a fraction of what they took in.
Ashley Vanerio (13:13.326)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (13:38.486)
being in Norway. Like we could have talked about Norway until we're blowing the face, but it would not have stuck like it did seeing it and touching it and experiencing it in person. And I think that's the same for all of us. Like they say that if you want to learn to speak French, go live in France. Like don't just try and learn it off of an app or something. Go there, do it, live it. There's a funny bit in a book out of our minds I'm listening to still. It takes me forever to listen to books. It's saying about if you taught children to swim,
Ashley Vanerio (13:49.806)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (13:57.87)
Yep.
Ashley Vanerio (14:05.582)
Mm.
Kelly Rigg (14:08.502)
by asking them to balance on their bellies on a desk and do the breaststroke and then said, well, in three years time, once you've mastered the movements, we'll let you get in the water. Then we know what's going to happen, but they will sink. Like there's no way they will actually still be able to swim. And so it's like this idea of like, I just feel like so much more of the learning that we do, even if we are struggling just to like get out and about and go to different days out and stuff like that.
It's just to try and recognise that in every situation where they get physically hands -on with something, they're going to be picking up so much more. And I just love that. I just think it's really exciting.
Ashley Vanerio (14:51.246)
Yeah, I think we almost train that out of children by being in that school environment consistently year over year over year. And right at this age, I mean, we have children that are still quite young, that curiosity and that need for like tangible experiences is still very real. And we know that kids learn better through play. We know that if they have to memorize something, it takes like, I forget the number, but it's like over a hundred repetitions.
Kelly Rigg (15:00.374)
Hmm.
Kelly Rigg (15:08.37)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (15:20.342)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (15:20.974)
Whereas if they do the same thing through play, it's like eight, you know, and they know something. So it's so, so much, I would say, I just think that that type of learning style where they can immerse themselves in it as much as possible is so powerful. And it really just does kind of cement it in their brain in just a very different way than if they're flipping through a book. And I know when we lived in Italy, we were reading, I think this was when my daughter was in,
Kelly Rigg (15:23.83)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (15:49.902)
first grade, it was our first year homeschooling, and there was a language arts curriculum that we were using that had an art component to it. And randomly, the art piece that they were looking at asking the kids to like, you know, look at the colors being used and textures and what do you think that kid in the picture is thinking. And I looked up the, because I knew the name was Italian, I looked up the artist.
And that picture was hanging in a church like 40 minutes from us. And I was like, that's what we're gonna go do. We're gonna go look at that and just kind of bringing the learning off the page in a way that lets them make it become reality is so special. And I think that to, now I get that not every experience outside of.
Kelly Rigg (16:20.246)
wow.
Kelly Rigg (16:24.822)
Yeah?
Kelly Rigg (16:34.934)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (16:44.142)
the classroom or in our case in the home or whatever we're doing like at a desk or reading a book on the couch or something is not going to be that way, but there is certainly potential for it and that's why it's so wonderful to be able to do those things.
Kelly Rigg (16:56.534)
Yeah, I think it just creates more conversations too, right? I mean, my son this morning was saying about how he wishes that bull sharks and all sorts of things could be his friends and that he knows that if he went swimming with them that they wouldn't be his friends, that they'd hurt him. And I was like, well, that's not strictly true. And I was like, people do swim with sharks and they don't get hurt.
Ashley Vanerio (17:11.47)
I'm sorry.
Kelly Rigg (17:25.366)
I said, and also, like, sharks can be your friends, like, even if, like, they don't, you're not going to go and hug them and, like, play football with them. I was like, but you can choose them for them to be considered a friend. And like the conversations we were having was basically sort of sparked off from an aquarium we went to see. And he's got this, like, we'd been learning a bit about what kinds of sharks and stuff are in the ocean around that way. And it's just, it's just, it's,
It allows conversations to link from one thing to another and for them to actually have these moments of reflection and consideration and like curiosity. And I mean, even for me, like I've looked at so many different photos with the kids when we were learning about Norway beforehand, but I've never noticed the colors that they paint the houses, that they paint their houses nice colors because it rains most of the time.
So it helps to brighten things up and to make everybody happy. It's literally as simple as that. They have these beautiful scalloped tiles they use on their roofs, so they kind of look like fish scales and stuff like that. The things I would never have noticed and wouldn't have been there to inspire conversation and like art that I'm intending on making off the back of it, because they're just things that really kind of have inspired me.
Ashley Vanerio (18:26.286)
Thank you.
Ashley Vanerio (18:33.902)
Mm.
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (18:47.606)
And yeah, I think that that phrase of like taking it off the page or kind of like getting getting out there and physically touching it like his play we think of players like just running around like being silly playing football like whatever but actually playing to a child can look like so many different things and I think that's something which I've had to really understand a lot more taking a more unschooling approach is to recognize what play really looks like and play looks like.
Ashley Vanerio (19:06.446)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (19:16.79)
helping to load the dishwasher. It looks like going and waiting out the front because you know someone's coming soon and looking for their car. It looks like, I don't know, trying to press elevator buttons. Like there's a number of different things that to a child is considered play and it's just part of their just their natural fun and curiosity that we actually lose so much of that as adults, especially when we've been schooled and we've been kind of taught to sit down.
Ashley Vanerio (19:30.638)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (19:45.558)
be quiet, learn what we're supposed to learn, prioritise what other people tell us we should be prioritising, that we forget that there's so much joy to be had in simple actions like planting a plant or painting a painting, reading a book. We just kind of lose so much of that inherent curiosity. And I think that, again, I think we mentioned this a few episodes ago, but I really am grateful.
Ashley Vanerio (20:07.726)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (20:13.526)
to finding home education for the curiosity that it's awoken in me again and the opportunity to ask questions, to be curious again, like alongside the kids when they ask me questions. I mean, my son wants to learn how to be a magician now. That's the topic they've chosen for the next phase. I'm just like, I have zero magic skills. Like I can barely juggle like nothing else. Like I'm not going to, yeah, I can just about manage two balls.
Ashley Vanerio (20:18.83)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (20:30.03)
I love that.
Ashley Vanerio (20:38.478)
I can't juggle at all.
Kelly Rigg (20:42.742)
that's it. gosh, that's turned terrible. This is definitely still clean, right? it's a little innuendo for you. Sorry, everybody. but yeah, I'm very embarrassed.
Ashley Vanerio (20:52.654)
I'm so tired my brain didn't even go there. I'm embarrassed that I'm like that like, yeah, that makes sense.
Kelly Rigg (20:58.614)
I'm blushing now. Anyway, so like I can barely do any magic. I've never done any magic tricks. I've never had the intention of learning any magic tricks, maybe briefly as a kid, like I might have wanted to learn something, but I've honestly never really thought about it. But the second he says to me, that's what I want our next topic to be, my brain just fires up with like, okay, how are we gonna find this out? Like, where can we get some information from? How can we do this?
Ashley Vanerio (21:12.334)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (21:26.518)
Like, where can we go? What kinds of places can we go and visit? Or like, is there a magician show near us? Is there someone who does magic tricks for birthday parties who we could maybe like see if they'll do like a little educational session for the kids at the co -op we run and stuff like that. Like this, all my brain just suddenly goes instantly like, this could be really fun. And thankfully I've got a kid who likes it when I jump on the bandwagon. But I know that.
Ashley Vanerio (21:42.126)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (21:54.094)
That's good.
Kelly Rigg (21:55.478)
We just have these moments when I realize that my brain is excited to be alive, like it's excited to do the next thing and to go to the next place and explore and to just do amazing stuff. And I'm just so grateful that I get the opportunity to, through facilitating their learning and playing with them and exploring with them, that I get to have the same
amazing experiences like hiking up to see the glacier for example when we're on holiday like I've never seen snowy cat mountains in my life anyway which I realized at the time I was like have I really never seen them up close like that's amazing but as we were climbing he was like is that glacier water that's like filtering down I was like yeah it is yeah and he was like can we touch it and I was like yeah we can touch it I was just like my god yeah let's touch it and we both like put our hands in it and we're like
Ashley Vanerio (22:39.63)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (22:51.958)
sort of remarking on how cool it was and how clear it was and beautiful and the colour of it is like this beautiful, blurry colour. And yeah, just like these moments when you just, he sparks curiosity in me like so often. And I just don't think, I just don't feel like this happens if you're literally being told what we're going to learn about next. Like this, like when we just kind of get into that rhythm of just being told, like,
learning about Egyptians this term. Yes, okay, it can be interesting and they can enjoy it, but actually so much of the time I feel like the child -led element really just brings everything alive.
Ashley Vanerio (23:21.486)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (23:36.302)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think when I talk to or when I read things even, but talking to other home ed moms, but certainly reading things about what like seasoned home ed parents have always said like the best part of home education for them has always been learning alongside their children. So you're almost reclaiming your education and what you may or may not have missed out on through your schooling years.
Kelly Rigg (24:04.246)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (24:05.486)
which I think can be really like just powerful and healing if that's something that you need. But even if you had a great time in school, I think there are certainly so, I mean, you don't know everything. So there's certainly so much that you're learning or even just seeing like there are so many times where I'm like, I wish it was explained to me that way. Like that makes so much sense. And instead you were taught it a different way, cause that's just how that teacher did it or the school did it or everyone did it at that time. And so,
Kelly Rigg (24:16.886)
No. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (24:26.998)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (24:33.718)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (24:34.574)
hearing it explained a different way can be really like, yes, okay, I get it now. Like that makes sense and kind of can just help us as we're kind of going along this journey with them. And I think that the more that we can take out of the process, the more that we can enjoy the process, the more our children enjoy it. And I tried to do a little bit of that kind of child led.
Kelly Rigg (24:46.55)
Thank you.
Ashley Vanerio (25:03.118)
right now as well when I was asking the girls what they want to learn about over the summer. And my oldest said she really wants to learn more about dogs. And so I'm like, okay. So then I was thinking like, for the history, we can be like, you know, famous dogs throughout time. And I think I popped it into the AI tool as well. It was like, what would you do for dogs? Like for geography.
Kelly Rigg (25:23.254)
Hmm.
Kelly Rigg (25:29.718)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (25:31.95)
And it came back like how different cultures view dogs, different cultures and different religions like view dogs. So, you know.
Kelly Rigg (25:38.838)
Mm -hmm.
I can get a little bit scary in places.
Ashley Vanerio (25:45.006)
Yeah, we'll have to definitely control what's being shared there. But yeah, and just kind of mapping, maybe mapping that out on a map, you know, and then having that information. And yeah, and certainly in science, that's easy to get into the different like biology or kind of all of that with the animal. And then for reading, and it was even like, or you can create, for writing, if you can create a dog poem.
Kelly Rigg (25:46.646)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (25:52.278)
Yeah, just like different breeds in different areas. So, yeah.
Kelly Rigg (26:01.366)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (26:13.774)
something like that. So just some really cool ways to take something like really simple and say, okay, dogs, okay. I think that's great. But how do we bridge it into the other areas that, that I, as the parent want them to make sure they're doing? so how do we, how do we pull in geography? How do we pull in history? and I think there, you can get creative with this stuff, just like you were talking about with the magic, you know, how do we, how do we make that work? And that's going to be something cool and exciting.
Kelly Rigg (26:22.614)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (26:30.07)
Mmm.
Kelly Rigg (26:34.998)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (26:43.382)
Yeah, and it really helps to highlight sometimes how interconnected all the subjects are because like there is something I was sort of explaining to someone once about kind of like if you bake a cake, if you do it, if you can like really maximise it in many different ways, you could cover off history as in like who invented this recipe or when do people start using flour? Like how did they start making it? Like how long ago was that? Then maybe it's kind of...
Ashley Vanerio (26:49.422)
Definitely.
Kelly Rigg (27:12.278)
Who was it who first figured out that if you combine these ingredients, it turns into cake? Whatever. Then you've got geography, the recipe that you're making. Where was that developed? And why did that develop in that area? Was there a particular reason why they like to make cake like that? For example, Cornish pasties, the fact that they used to make the pastry wasn't really edible. It was designed as an encasing, basically, for the filling. One end would be sweet and one end would be savory.
Ashley Vanerio (27:28.718)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (27:41.686)
And so the coal miners would keep it in their pocket, help to keep them nice and warm. And then they'd break it open at lunchtime and they'd eat the filling. They wouldn't, like, got dirty hands, so they'd just hold the pastry on the outside and then they'd eat the inside because it'd be kept clean. It's really interesting. Some of this stuff's really fascinating and helps to delve into history and other things. They've obviously got the chemistry, they knew that certain science of how it actually even comes together as a cake and what's actually happening, what's the egg doing, et cetera. And it just keeps going and going and going.
Ashley Vanerio (28:08.502)
Yeah, math with the measuring and yeah.
Kelly Rigg (28:10.55)
You've got reading, you've got writing, you've got maths, you've got absolutely every subject you can possibly imagine can be included if you wanted to really get into it by baking a single cake. And I think that having these opportunities to take, as you say, take them away from the page, get them outside, get them doing something, going to a place or even just in your own home practising doing a thing instead of just...
reading about it, learning about it, like maths for example is a great one, the more tangible and relevant it feels to them in their life. So like for example the elevator buttons, that felt hugely relevant to her. It helped her to understand where we were going and how to get back to the room and if she got lost, like she knew that she could get back to the room, so at least she had that. Like there's all these different things that the relevance that is in them in those moments.
why it's important to them to be able to do it, allows them to push themselves and to overcome any kind of lag that might be going on in the brain. Like obviously I've been trying to help her recognise her numbers for months and months now with various different games and things like that. And she was still just asking me every time. And it was, I wasn't getting frustrated with it. I was just like, she's clearly just not like chosen to really commit this to memory yet. And this week she's just like blown me away and it's like thoroughly committed to memory.
Like same way as she's like physically learned to swim by herself this week because she was just having such a great time in the pool every day that she had that opportunity to really push those skills. Like we always see kids really coming on leaps and bounds when they have like an intensive period of time doing something. But I think it's, I just think it's just so lovely to see children challenging themselves, going out of their comfort zone, trying new things, playing and
Ashley Vanerio (29:54.926)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (30:06.134)
like manipulating situations to understand how they work and what can happen and blah blah blah. Like they just like the things that they get to do in those moments definitely far outstrip anything that you could sit and try and teach them like sat down at a table somewhere. So I guess the point was anyway in all this ramble was to just kind of really emphasize the fact that you as a parent sometimes will find yourself maybe thinking that you've got to do more sitting down work or you've got to
Ashley Vanerio (30:13.134)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (30:36.662)
read more books or whatever it might be. And it's just to kind of reassure you that actually sometimes that's not true and that sometimes less is more and just get them in a place that is inspiring in some way. And that could simply be a forest or a local lake or wherever. You just take some magnifying glasses and go to a forest. It doesn't have to be anything drastic. It doesn't have to cost the world, but give yourself that chance to just
change the learning up a little bit, just get out and have some fun. And you'll probably find that they would take on so much more than they would if you were trying to do something more structured with them. But yeah, I think there's all kinds of things to Home Ed that I think are intrinsically linked to travel or just opportunities and getting out and about. And I just think it's amazing. I think it's one of the real kind of cornerstones of why Home Ed becomes so special.
Ashley Vanerio (31:18.126)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (31:35.766)
It's just that opportunity for children to just, the classroom isn't four walls, it's not your home, it's not your grandparents' home, it's not the local park, it's literally everywhere. And I just think that just creates such a rich and varied environment for them to develop new skills. I just think it's just amazing.
Ashley Vanerio (31:42.286)
Yes.
Ashley Vanerio (31:57.454)
Yeah, it always surprises me when people think that because you home educate, you're like in your house and you never leave and you're like lacking any kind of exposure to the outside world. And I'm thinking like you and I were just talking about this before we started recording, like it's hard to stay in the home. Like we have to like really plan and hang on to those home days because it's so easy to do so much, whether it's with groups or whatever, but.
Kelly Rigg (32:13.302)
Yeah, it is.
Ashley Vanerio (32:26.67)
Yeah, with the opportunities to actually go and interact with the things you're learning about. I mean, those, first of all, are incredible opportunities that if you can do them, why wouldn't you? And then just being able to do them. I mean, yeah, it's your, your, your out of the home. So it's, it's absolutely right. I mean, we kind of think of the, the world as the classroom, right? Not just the school or your house. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (32:35.574)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (32:47.158)
Yeah.
Yeah and I just think there's so much to see and so many opportunities to have that it's I just again I honestly just think it's such a shame that the sort of small -mindedness in schooling in this country at the moment referencing the UK for anyone who's new to this podcast but like this idea that parents are going to be fined so heavily for taking their kids out
As I say, if I do it more than three times in three years, it's a two and a half thousand pound fine. Just absolutely astronomical. And I just think it's such a shame that we're... I understand that not every parent who's taken their child out of school is doing so to go and give them amazing opportunities and experiences. I get that. Like, I do get that that's not always going to be what's happening. But I just think it's a...
Ashley Vanerio (33:40.942)
Yeah.
Right.
Kelly Rigg (33:46.23)
a shame that when children are needing mental health days, when they're not feeling great, when they're not coping well in school, when their parent has like, even if they're just like going to a funeral or a wedding, or they're just, they're going and doing something important or like that the family needs to go away because one of them needs to travel for work or whatever for a little while and they need, they want to stay together as a family. Like all these different reasons should allow families to have their freedoms.
to do what they need to do to live and to experience the world around them. And I just think it's such a shame that young people are potentially being, well, young people, but also the parents are being punished for giving their children other opportunities and experiences that are not just sitting in a school classroom because there is just so much more world out there to see and to be interacting with.
Ashley Vanerio (34:22.222)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (34:41.078)
that I honestly think that every opportunity for a child to be outside of a classroom and experience in the world around them and getting out there and being involved in that is just so enriching and important, even if it's really basic, like going to the food shop or whatever it is. But I just think it's really important that we actually allow families to enrich their children's education in sensible ways.
Ashley Vanerio (34:53.198)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (34:58.702)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (35:09.718)
as often as possible and it shouldn't be restricted in that way. Like we opt into school, we're using it as an option and I just feel like parents should be given way more freedom to enjoy their life for their children.
Ashley Vanerio (35:25.006)
Well, especially because I question, and I'm sure this is just me not having read everything that's come out about this, largely just because it doesn't apply to us. But what is the purpose? Is it to improve grades? Is it to have the classroom full so the teacher is not teaching to an empty classroom? Because when I've looked at some of the research,
Kelly Rigg (35:33.334)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (35:52.782)
from the US side, so what I've seen about statistics around US schools, is that the absenteeism, what we consider chronic absenteeism, so which is 10 % of the school year, so 18 days out of 180 days school year, that the grades typically don't correlate to that, so it's not typically an indicator of someone doing poorly at school, it's more typically an indicator of some kind of crisis at home.
Kelly Rigg (36:22.07)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (36:22.574)
that they're having, like maybe the child is young and needs help getting to the bus stop and the parents or guardian aren't waking them up in time and because they have something else going on that they're not getting them there. So like there can be kind of it can be an indicator of different things for different age groups, obviously. But that it it's something that just because someone
Kelly Rigg (36:36.182)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (36:43.318)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (36:51.758)
wants to go to a wedding or a funeral or a parent wants to take them on a holiday doesn't indicate that they're going to do poorly at school. It doesn't have that correlation. Yeah. And so it's definitely something. And I was seeing earlier this year at the beginning of the school year where there was some literature out about if your kid, even if your kid is like ill, but they don't have a fever or something, you should
Kelly Rigg (36:59.99)
No, no, not for me. No.
Ashley Vanerio (37:18.606)
all these indicators of you should still send your kid to school in the UK if all the, even if they have this, that's okay, we don't care. And I'm just thinking, well, gosh, that doesn't mean the kid feels good. Like if the kid has all those things, they don't feel good. They're not gonna sit in that classroom and actively participate or retain anything they're learning. They're gonna be miserable. They're gonna spread germs. And frankly, I'm more worried about the parents that send their kids to school that way because they have no childcare option.
Kelly Rigg (37:19.606)
Man.
near
Kelly Rigg (37:29.302)
Nein.
What?
Kelly Rigg (37:35.51)
No. No.
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (37:47.286)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (37:47.502)
because they have no flexibility at work. I mean, that's the fear. If you can keep your kid home and they're ill, keep them home. Like that's, that's, that's almost a privilege, right? I mean, not a privilege, but like, it's definitely should be the choice, right? Like if you can keep your child at home and you can work from home or arrange for someone to be there for that kid so they can get better. Yeah. And then there'll be just a much more productive student in the classroom. So yeah, I mean, I'm sure we could talk about this forever, but it's just having not grown up.
Kelly Rigg (37:49.878)
Mm -hmm.
Kelly Rigg (37:58.198)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (38:06.23)
and get them feeling well again. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (38:17.71)
with the kind of attendance culture that there is here in the UK and this stress about it. I don't know if this is new or if this has always been the idea that kids need to be in school. For me, it's just so surprising.
Kelly Rigg (38:29.27)
here.
Kelly Rigg (38:34.55)
I'm not sure if I would need to look into how long the fines have been going on for, but I can remember as a child my mum being very anxious about us taking too much time off and that she would be getting letters and they'd be calling her in to talk to her if it was more than a few times in a school year and like people had like an attendance record like you did, like you weren't supposed to have more than X amount of days off total per year or whatever.
Ashley Vanerio (38:43.598)
Mmm.
Kelly Rigg (38:57.974)
I guess it's just like work prepping, isn't it? Like it's just getting you used to the idea that if you're sick when you're a grown -up, you don't get to take time off. But like, I just think it's, I think the attendance culture in this country is definitely angling towards the fact that they're paying for the child to be in the school setting. They're trying to get children through and out the other end with these C grades and above in maths, English and science.
The academia focus is just a chronic problem. Like they aren't putting enough energy or interest into other angles of intelligence. Like the focus is entirely on maths, English science. That is all the way through. That's what they want them to get at the end of it. So I think that the problem is if they're not attending on a regular basis, or if they are being pulled out for various reasons, then obviously they're missing out on chunks of the curriculum. So you're a child out for two weeks midterm.
Ashley Vanerio (39:40.942)
Okay.
Ashley Vanerio (39:55.054)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (39:57.238)
they're going to miss an element of the curriculum has been taught during those two weeks. And so the fear is that they won't catch up, that they'll be behind when they come back and they won't know what they've been covering. And it doesn't get necessarily will get covered again to some degree, but they will have missed a chunk of it. And I can remember coming back, like when I've been off sick for a week, when I was in kind of late primary school and the stress of knowing that I'd missed a chunk of information and I know like when we were going to kind of catch up with it again.
Ashley Vanerio (40:08.27)
turn.
Ashley Vanerio (40:21.774)
Definitely. Yes, I remember that too.
Kelly Rigg (40:27.286)
And so I think that the truth is, because they've got kids, like that the idea is the curriculum has to be fitted into those weeks that they're in school and the rest of it, they just expect that everyone needs to have their kids there the whole time. And obviously they are putting the blame on the parents for children they're not succeeding in total in their school career, because they've missed a couple of weeks here and there for sickness or traveling or whatever.
which as we say is absolutely not going to be the reason why they have not managed to have a successful school career. And yeah, I mean, I say this is kind of like a whole other topic really, I suppose, but the point of it behind is that obviously if we are punishing parents for wanting to give their children other opportunities like travel, like days out trips, family occasions or like big important moments like, say, for example, funerals or whatever.
Ashley Vanerio (41:03.246)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (41:24.79)
that if we're stopping parents from being able to take their children and give them real world experiences and we're saying to them, no, they've got to be in school, that's more important. It's just driving home this idea that the only kind of success we're interested in in this society is an academic one. And there's plenty of academic learning that goes on in travelling and experiencing things, even just playing on the beach. There's a ton of academic learning that is going on in that.
but we don't recognise it and we don't respect it. And it's just such a shame that we have this really closed -minded attitude as to what constitutes learning and what constitutes intelligence in this country. And basically just limiting that and then funneling them in and focusing in on those kinds of learning that doesn't work for all kids and it doesn't work for all families. And ultimately,
Ashley Vanerio (42:00.398)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (42:23.894)
And as I say, it's like the whole kind of like learning to swim by balancing on a desk. Like there's an awful lot that we're going to be learning in school that without tangible experience of those things, it just doesn't always compute. Like they're not going to be able to draw the relevance and to see why it matters to them. And certain concepts are just never going to make sense because they're just never going to witness them. That's why so many people leave school.
feeling like most of it was just a waste of time because you're never going to use it. Like you don't see the relevance at all. And I just think that's such a shame, such a missed opportunity when there are so many practical uses for the things that are being taught in schools that kids need to see and feel and touch so that it actually cements into their brain. So I've got a really great bit in out of our minds, I'll just say today that he's saying, but if you teach a group of children how to use an abacus to do...
Ashley Vanerio (43:07.79)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (43:21.238)
simple maths and addition of subtraction. And then we take a child who hasn't been taught with an abacus and we give them a calculator to use to do it. And then we ask them a bunch of different sums. The children with the abacus will do it faster because their brains can visualize like six and four, they've physically seen it like so many times, but it's just physically cemented in their brain.
Ashley Vanerio (43:45.678)
Mm.
Kelly Rigg (43:47.19)
whereas a child is typing in 6 plus 4 equals onto a calculator, there's no grasping that the numbers don't have as much physical concept to them, so that they're not going to be able to do it like instantly in their head. So then if you then ask the children who've only ever used a calculator or like just numbers, the same questions as children who have an abacus, but you take away their calculators and their abacus, the kids with the abacus can do it much faster still because they can visualize it in their heads.
and they physically touched it and played with it and manipulated it themselves. And I think these are just really great, thoughtful moments. And I think this is why I really emphasize it's really important when you're de -scrolling, when you're figuring out home -editing, you're in the very early stages, is to be reading some of these books because they really help you to recognize how many different methods and approaches we need to really be considering and how school methods aren't always the best.
Ashley Vanerio (44:17.006)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (44:42.894)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (44:45.238)
methods that we've been taught to think they are, but they're not necessarily gold standard at all. And we have got opportunities to do so many really incredible things with our kids and to actually, if you think how simple it seems to allow a child to physically manipulate objects, to help them learn how to do maths. I've often thought no, no, no, I need to get them used to using numbers and writing out as an actual sum because they're going to need to know it that way.
Ashley Vanerio (45:10.99)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (45:14.102)
And it's like, well, no, but actually they will know it that way. This actually helps them to build that knowledge for that so that when they see it in number form, they'll just get it. Because the concept will feel relevant and practical to them. But anyway, I say we could go on about this forever. But I just think it's fascinating that we often doubt ourselves and feel like we should be doing it in a more schooly way. And I think sometimes you just have to really question that.
Ashley Vanerio (45:33.678)
Yeah, we definitely could.
Kelly Rigg (45:43.222)
and it's often go down a far more practical and experiential route. But yeah, I think that's pretty much where we should probably wrap up, I guess, for today. We've been talking for a little while, but I guess I know that Ashlyn will want to say it as well, but thank you so much to those of you who are listening and who are getting involved and reaching out to us and stuff as well, and obviously leaving us the reviews and things. We've had some really, really lovely comments.
Ashley Vanerio (45:50.222)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (46:05.39)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (46:12.918)
and it really means an awful lot to us. We are going to take a short break. So we're going to be getting some stuff pre -recorded and getting it ready to come back to you kind of beginning of August. So we're going to be taking June, July off and we're back with a new series in August. So if there is something that you want us to be prepping and including in the next series, please, please, please do reach out. So I am at Offroading Motherhood on Instagram.
and Ashley is homeschool .in .progress on Instagram as well. If you use TikTok, then iambanish .home .ed .burnout. So come and find us, come and chat to us and tell us what you would love for us to be talking about next time. But for now, thank you so much for being our listeners for our first ever series. We're having a lot of fun recording it all. I'll let Ashley say a few words as well.
Ashley Vanerio (47:01.838)
Really.
Ashley Vanerio (47:09.806)
Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely give us, give us ideas and, and feedback because we're going to be spending some time planning as we start to rev up for the next season here. And we want to make the stuff that you want to hear. So, yeah. And thanks for listening.
Kelly Rigg (47:23.254)
No.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's been really good fun and I think we're slowly getting into our flow with it now as well. Hopefully you've started to notice that, fingers crossed. I don't know, last time, that's just like hilariously falling about laughing because Ashley's cat decided to make a star appearance right in the middle of an episode, so that was hilarious. But anyway, we will let you get on with your day. And yeah, just thanks again. Thank you so much. It really means an awful lot to us that you listen and that you are.
Ashley Vanerio (47:37.454)
Mm -hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (47:48.63)
my gosh.
Kelly Rigg (47:58.134)
involved in our little journey. So, see you all on the next one. Take care guys, have a lovely summer break.
Ashley Vanerio (48:03.566)
Yeah.
Bye.
