Kelly Rigg (00:02.732)
Hello everybody. Welcome to yet another episode of the Big Home Ed conversations. I hope that you're all having a really, really lovely week. We are coming at you today with a conversation that is just really timely. It's just kind of relating to kind of what's been going on for us and the fact that we have been really busy and having a lot of kind of random things going on in our lives. It just sort of distracts away from maybe our usual routines and the things which kind of keep us.
grounded, I suppose, in our kind of home education journey. And I think when you've been doing it for a few years, you do tend to fall into a really natural rhythm, don't you, Ashley, with the kind of just just certain groups and clubs that you do and certain things that you do with them, like topics you know that they'll take on board quite easily. All of those kinds of things. And I think it's really important to notice that home education is really allowing your children to be fully immersed in real life and
Ashley Vanerio (00:42.674)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (00:58.454)
what that actually looks like sometimes is routine going completely to pot. And or maybe not even that drastically, but sometimes it is, but it's like things sometimes need to shift entire priorities. You might have opportunities come up, you might have things happening in your life, like say for example, Ashley's been moving house recently, she's had an awful lot going on. We've obviously gotten a puppy recently, so that adds a whole different vibe to the family life. There's new responsibilities, new things to think about.
Ashley Vanerio (01:02.344)
Mm-hmm
Kelly Rigg (01:25.87)
new expectations, new ways of keeping the house tidy, etc. We have to be conscious of different things and that does sometimes throw us off and basically makes us just feel a little bit off-kilter, I guess, and can sometimes feel quite stressful. I know that myself and Ashley were chatting the other day and she was saying that she was feeling a bit kind of on edge of the fact that it doesn't feel like you've maybe been able to pick up the more kind of sit-down.
like learning with the kids that you obviously were in a good routine of doing kind of before you went away in the summer and everything. It just takes a while sometimes to kick back in, doesn't it? And especially when you've had big, big life changes.
Ashley Vanerio (02:06.098)
Yeah, we've, we just came off of like a very busy summer and then we got straight home here and had to prepare to move. And, you know, with kids, it's just, there's way more than when we used to move just ourselves. And then it was visitors. So my parents visited, then my husband's parents visited, and then my parents visited again.
While all that was going on, we were trying to empty out the fridge and prepare the bedrooms to, you know, get packed up and all of that. So, and it was just a lot of, I don't know, paperwork and phone conversations that kept happening around the closing of the sale of the house. And, just work was busy for my husband and we just were very, very chaotic, very in the thick of it.
And accomplishing school, but not like it would normally be done. was sort of being fitted, fit into the moments that we had free. And so the routine was very much lost. And then there were a lot of activities on top of our normal activities. So a lot of kind of extra opportunities to meet up with other home ed parents at different, garden centers and things like that, that were suddenly filling our day as well. And then of course, getting back into all the clubs and sports and everything.
was all of this happening whilst trying to move and get back into routine. So it was just very chaotic. And definitely I could see in my kids that instead of knowing what we were doing every day, was the question every morning, like, what are we doing today? What are we doing today? And so that just kind of signaled to me that we were having a, just kind of a fluid home ed journey right now. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (04:01.164)
Yeah, it's really tricky, isn't it sometimes? And I think what can happen when this starts to happen, when we have a lot going on and we are maybe feeling a little bit untethered or like each day is very different to the last and you're kind of squeezing stuff in here and there, like the important phone call to this person, the like quick dose of reading with them, with them all this side. Like it starts to feel a little bit like you're not in control. And then it kind of feels like life is lifeing you. So I like to put it like it's...
Ashley Vanerio (04:19.08)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (04:29.768)
Right.
Kelly Rigg (04:31.094)
It's just kind of dragging you along with it. And that doesn't always feel so good. And sometimes we can then start to feel a little bit like we're going to have to kind of get it back in check. But actually what we sometimes need to do is just have that ability to recognise that in that chaos, there's an awful lot of learning happening. There's an awful lot of things which doesn't look like their maths or their reading or whatever.
really like specific sitting reading a book anyway. But it might look different, but it doesn't make it any less important. And I think this is what we really wanted to kind of get into today was how actually what we can sometimes do is put our routine or the certain classes that we maybe go to or they're reading or whatever on a pedestal. And we kind of forget that there's an awful lot about life that our kids need to have some understanding of by the time they reach adulthood.
And so often people are sat there kind of concerned about teenagers not having the ability to manage a bank account or how to manage complicated relationships or how to keep safe in certain scenarios. Like there's not a teenager on this planet that probably has been through a sort standardized schooling process that would have any idea how to pack up boxes ready for a move to make sure that everything is kept safe and secure and all the rest of it. Like that stuff happens at home. It doesn't happen in school. That's not where they're getting it from.
Ashley Vanerio (05:44.98)
Right.
Ashley Vanerio (05:55.796)
Right.
Kelly Rigg (05:58.67)
But often, obviously, if a family is moving house and their kids are in full-time school and obviously all these extracurriculars and things, chances are they're not going to see an awful lot of the behind the scenes of what has to go, what has to happen. The discussion of finances, they're speaking to building companies, they're speaking to estate agents, going and looking at houses. Like, they won't have necessarily been involved in a lot of that. It will have been happening during school hours when...
they weren't around possibly. Obviously it's not, it speaks for every situation. A lot people might have to be doing it all on the weekends. So fair enough, they might be seeing it. But ultimately we are able to do an awful lot more of our adulting out of their sight when they're in school. Whereas when they're home educated, they typically get to see or hear about most of it in some way, or form. And I can remember moving a few years ago and feeling really, really kind of bad almost for the fact that actually
Ashley Vanerio (06:39.518)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (06:53.422)
for a good couple months we were dipping in and out of doing little bits of formal education as you might want to call it, of math, English, science, like really kind of conscious of topics, but then we'd be, I don't know, like whole week would go by and we'd be like my goodness what have we actually done this week and I then had to get really really good at reflecting on the week and seeing that actually he was helping me pack boxes for the move and he was recognising that
You couldn't just fill a whole box up with books because that was far too heavy. You had to do half books, half cuddlies that you had to make sure that you were, I don't know, like I'd be talking to the mortgage company or the phone with him around. And obviously he was only quite little then. So he didn't really ask me many questions on that. But maybe nowadays, for example, better, better one is me talking to a builder about some issues we've got in the house at the moment and him following up when I got off the phone saying, what is rising damp on me? Like, how does that happen? Like,
surely the house shouldn't be soaking water up from the floor, like that doesn't sound good. And I'm just like, it's not good. I'm telling you now it ain't good. And it's not fun and it is going to cost a lot of money to fix and it takes a good conversation. But there's definitely an awful lot of very important things happening there where they're witnessing life and they're participating in it and they're helping and they're recognising what being an adult looks like that I think is really important.
Ashley Vanerio (07:52.926)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (08:17.326)
Even if they are kind of just on the sidelines of it and just watching it happen, I think that that's actually really crucial learning time that we don't necessarily put it high enough on a pedestal, do we? We don't actually sit there and think, I mean, we'll say, it'd great if our kids had these skills when they're older and they're able to do X, Y, Z. But we don't necessarily really sit down and think, OK, how can I make sure that this is included in their day to day so they pick up all of these really useful skills?
And I honestly think that this is really fascinating how we then start to feel bad when we're busy, that maybe they're being left to be bored or to come up with their own ideas or whatever a little bit more often.
Ashley Vanerio (09:00.308)
Yeah. I mean, I think the boredom is really good. think that having them really comfortable with playing alone, and by that, I just mean without me, like they might have siblings with them. might not, but without like my direct engagement is, is crucial. And it's really easy to feel bad about that, right? Because we're home with them. We want to be involved. We want to pay attention to them. We want them to feel loved. But at the same time, we're, we still have stuff to get done and
We can't involve them in everything. We would never get anything done. So it is something that I need them sometimes to be able to, whether it's going to their room or going to the backyard, whatever that looks like. To be able to do that, I think is really important. And even if it's just tiny little moments, 10 minutes here, 10 minutes there, and we'll build up to the hour stretches, that's okay. Obviously my 10 year old does it much better than my five year old, but.
I think that, there are so many opportunities that my kids have seen, like they've been here for the contractor that's come in. They've been here with the plumber. They've been here, when the guy came to clean the fireplace and they saw how he sucks things out of the chimney and, and all of that. So I think that they are seeing a lot more of what it takes and hopefully, not that I would expect them to articulate this, but hopefully they're kind of getting an appreciation for.
what goes into the kind of household management aspect of life. And that it's not just you live in a house and do nothing. Like there's a constant management of where you are and what's going on. And if there's a calm, embrace it, cause something's coming. Something's going to break. But then I think, well, just, it hits Cuba coming. Yeah. And then,
Kelly Rigg (10:33.742)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rigg (10:47.086)
You can tell we're both feeling a little bit skeptical right now, huh?
Ashley Vanerio (10:56.508)
I think that the other thing too is to that end, you know, while things are chaotic and frustrating and dealing with different movers and them packing your laptop and not knowing where it is for a week. that trying to model some calm with that, I think is also hopefully something that I'm doing at least to some degree.
Kelly Rigg (11:20.65)
I was about to say is that something we're supposed to do oops
Ashley Vanerio (11:26.128)
I don't not lose my. Yeah. insert bad word there. So I think that I'm probably a little better at this than my husband is. he, he is uncomfortable in the chaos and I can sort of ride, ride the wave a little bit. So, I think that as much as I can be a calm presence throughout this chaos to hopefully bear.
they'll take some of that into their future life experiences. But yeah, it is definitely a combination of involving them and then asking them to go entertain themselves.
Kelly Rigg (12:07.746)
Yeah, and I think when we sort of the idea of sending kids to just go and entertain themselves, I think sometimes you definitely see people talking kind of the early stages of home education, especially where they do seem to be really anxious about kind of like, I'm supposed to be with them and like helping them and playing with them and teaching them like all the time. And I guess when they're very little, that is the energy, isn't it really? I you've got toddlers, you do have to keep an eye on them. They're gonna draw on something.
Ashley Vanerio (12:31.676)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (12:35.022)
I left my five-year-old alone with a bowl of melted chocolate today and a spoon for approximately one minute and absolutely everything she touched. Her face, her forehead, her hair, her t-shirt. I was like, how did this happen? You were literally licking a spoon. what did you do? Did you stick your face in it? Like, I don't even know what you did. And she was like, what? Completely oblivious to the chaos that she was creating.
Ashley Vanerio (12:53.476)
Yep.
Kelly Rigg (13:01.742)
So like they they don't always mean to make chaos obviously and so I appreciate that as they get older this gets easier but for sure boredom, their own curiosity, their own imagination and play and I mean this again I was saying to you just before we got on it's really fascinating because my daughter, my youngest, so she's just turned five and she will play with anything like I came up to my desk a minute ago and I found, obviously I can't show you but I've got like a little tiny dinosaur plant pot.
Ashley Vanerio (13:10.92)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (13:30.634)
and a couple of little tiny plastic dinosaurs that I genuinely have never seen before in my life. I don't know where they've come from. Two little baby bottles and two little tiny baby-like dog food bowls. And so quite clearly this is a family of baby dinosaurs that the mummy is taking care of. It's utterly adorable. And she will play with anything. Like she was playing with snowflake stickers on the window last Christmas for about three hours. They were going off on this adventure.
Ashley Vanerio (13:37.108)
you
Ashley Vanerio (13:46.6)
Yes.
Kelly Rigg (13:57.75)
And so she was just moving these little snowflake stickers around my back window. It was amazing. So she's great. She can come up with anything. She can be put into the most boring situation on the planet and she will find entertainment there. Whereas my son, so they're both, as I say, just to clarify, they're both very likely autistic. My son very much likely autistic ADHD. So they're very different anyway, but he cannot self-propell in that way.
Ashley Vanerio (14:23.476)
Mm.
Kelly Rigg (14:23.822)
he hasn't particularly got an imagination of his own, he tends to absorb imaginative things from books, TV games, other people's play and he can get on board with it and he can then kind of imagine it and start working with it but he doesn't have a lot of, it sounds so mean, it's not unique thought is how I kind of try to explain it, he won't, for example if I ask him to, I don't know, draw a monster
Ashley Vanerio (14:31.742)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (14:42.791)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (14:49.058)
he will draw a monster from a book he's seen or he will draw a dragon or he'll draw whatever, right? He won't draw, he won't come up with a completely new monster all of his own. And that is pretty typical in everything that we do. So actually he finds it very difficult to self-propell with his play and I have to go and instigate something, suggest something, enforce something. Like it feels quite frustrating for me sometimes, especially when you're dealing with something really big and important.
especially when you're dealing with a fantastic array of ADHD brains in your own household where everyone gets distracted the second after you give them a suggestion as well. So it's a bit sometimes a bit kind of the executive function required to do all the important things that we have to do as grown-ups and then also manage theirs and get them to go through the motions of just setting up something to do can feel really stressful and so it's sort of like just just hard relate to anyone out there who's going to be great if they just go and play because my son doesn't and I have to
I do have to create something for him to do. And it is pretty hard and sometimes that's really frustrating, but in its own way, those moments when he is bored and he is like drifting around the house and he can't find anything to do right now, he will find these little micro moments of things to do. And he's also experiencing what it feels like to understand that there isn't always going to be someone there who can literally dictate to him, here's what you should do next.
Ashley Vanerio (16:11.571)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (16:12.034)
And he does have to exercise those muscles to be able to actually go and find something to do. And I think we have to remember that the boredom, like they always say, is super important for children. Like they shouldn't have every minute of their day directed. That you don't always have to set up everything. You can allow them to be very focused on their own experience and come up with their own ideas. And equally, if you are having a really hard time for whatever reason, whether it's a practical reason, whether it's an emotional, mental reason, whatever.
you taking your foot off the gas with sitting down and doing focused maths with them or whatever, just going to using that as an example. That isn't everything. That is not everything. And we have got to remember this because it's, they've got a whole life ahead of them. And the maths concepts, sure, if years and years and years go by and you're already struggling to ever sit down and do maths with them, then you're going to, you're going to reach a point where you're going to feel really rubbish about that. And that's fair.
Ashley Vanerio (16:53.268)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (17:10.926)
but we're just talking right now is a week or two here or there when you think actually, do you know what? We haven't really touched on enough of that really. And we want to just bring it back in gently, but you do it when you're ready. You do it when things feel good. I just think it's interesting what they pick up when they're busy just doing their own random little play, like the kind of things they're actually doing. It's really fascinating sometimes.
Ashley Vanerio (17:33.617)
Yeah, it is. And I think that, you know, when you, if you're having trouble building up to that free play, one of the things that I was really conscious of in sort of the earlier years, but you could do this at any time, is doing the play with them and then stepping away for a minute. So like, I would start with like, okay, maybe we're painting. And so I'll set up the painting and I'll do some painting and then I'll say, okay, I'm just going to go flip over the laundry.
you know, and that's what three minutes, you know, I can bring the folding back and fold with them while they're still painting. So, and then it would be, okay, do you want to, I mean, laundry is kind of a bad example, although I did do that, I still do that as a way to buy time, but I actually make them fold now. So now it's sort of like, go fold the laundry. But it's definitely one of those things where I could be like, okay, I'm just going to go.
clean the bathroom a little bit. Maybe I'm just going to wipe down the sink and then I'll be right back." And so buying those little moments where then they're okay and you can expand on that time as they grow more confident and as you see them able to manage a few minutes here and they're on their own. And I think that that's really how we got to a point where, although of course a lot of this is just child dependent, right? And I recognize that.
Kelly Rigg (18:38.648)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (18:55.196)
every child is different and some children just take to this very well. My youngest is extremely well at self play. And I honestly think it's because her older sisters make her leave a lot. So poor, poor thing ends up being like alone just because they shoo her away. so I do, I will make a conscious effort though, to sit with her, like when she wants to play.
Kelly Rigg (19:05.065)
Kelly Rigg (19:13.502)
you
Ashley Vanerio (19:22.6)
or she wants a story read, I'll take the five minutes to do it. And then I will, and I'll tell her, I can read you one story, but then I have to go and you'll have to stay, you know, keep, keep on carrying on by yourself. and that, that does tend to work because I think that I found when I was pushing it off and saying, let me finish this and then I'll read you the story. me then, you know, they really don't understand that. They don't understand how long that is. They don't know 10 minutes in, in real time. Right. And so.
Kelly Rigg (19:46.594)
No.
Ashley Vanerio (19:51.076)
It was, I found, and this was a tip I got from someone along the way who was like, instead of doing that, say, yes, I will read this to you, but then I have to get back to my thing. And that way you fulfill that little need right then. And then hopefully that's enough to send them off and you get a few more minutes. but yeah, I mean, the stuff that they can come up with, the little stories they create. It's so cute. And it's so.
Kelly Rigg (20:01.859)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rigg (20:09.059)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (20:17.406)
just like genuinely feels like childhood to me. And so I do think that it's a good skill for them to have if you can get there, which I recognize is very hard, but.
Kelly Rigg (20:30.284)
Yeah, I think that's lovely as well. It's a really good point about that. If we really want to imagine what we what the dream was for home and the childhood who were hoping they would have mine is definitely that they would have all this time to play, to explore their own ideas, to read books that matter to them, to to make things and create things and make messes and be outside and get muddy. Like all this stuff was 100 % important to me. Like I did not.
Ashley Vanerio (20:52.902)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rigg (20:58.86)
Like I was thinking, yes, OK, I do want them to be capable of stepping out into the world at the end of their home education journey, which obviously we know never ends. That's the whole point. It carries on forever. But I want them to get to the age of 16, 17, 18 and feel like they can go to college, they can go to university, they can go and get a really good job, they can do whatever they want to do. Like, of course, I want them to be able to do all those things. And so I know that there are certain core skills which most children will be expected to have at the end of it. And so, of course,
Ashley Vanerio (21:09.076)
Thank
Kelly Rigg (21:28.174)
I wouldn't ever want them feeling like they haven't got those and I'd let them down. But at the same time, I really also hope that the opportunities they've had to be more diverse in their play and their learning and to be more stuck in and involved and helpful and to get to know how to run a household, to get to know how to do things with DIY, to, I don't know, like my son was chatting to his grandpa recently with an ohmmeter talking about resistance and they were having fun like checking the resistance of like...
Ashley Vanerio (21:49.243)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rigg (21:57.92)
a lemon and a potato and my son and all kinds of stuff. And they were having a brilliant time. I mean, that's maths, that's science, that's engineering, it's understanding how stuff works. It's fascinating and it's interesting. And he was having a brilliant time. And I think that we can get so hung up on things looking a certain way that we forget that actually
Ashley Vanerio (22:10.227)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (22:22.382)
it can look very different and still have, well, maybe even have a better effect. And I think there was a statistic you said to me once, like, that if you instruct a child in something, can take, like, I don't know, like, they're sitting down in a worksheet or something, takes like 100 attempts to make something stick. Whereas if they're playing, it can take as little as 12 or something. Like it's, it's something, something like that. Three, yeah. I was trying to think what the numbers were. So it's like really fascinating that, yeah, they basically find themselves
Ashley Vanerio (22:40.308)
It's even less, it's like three. Yeah, it's crazy the difference, Yeah, yeah, so true. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (22:51.726)
playing and picking stuff up so much faster. And I mean, another thing you said as well about like how actually they go fold the laundry now. I think this is another thing which is really interesting. And I found myself thinking as you're talking about how as they get older, obviously, I do expect them to help more with this sort of day to day chores and things that need to be done.
And I found myself having two thoughts simultaneously. One is the concept that I can sometimes feel really resentful if I am super busy, if I've got an awful lot of adulting to do and important things that need to be done. It's kind of a bit of sidestep to the conversation, really. I get a bit resentful when they're just like, can we just go watch TV? I'm just like, have you seen the state of the kitchen? Or like, your clothes are everywhere. Have you seen the floor? Like, seriously, you were doing a craft earlier and look at it. Like, there is stuff everywhere.
I was like, I am not going to be able to go and sit and have my cup of tea and watch a bit of TV until I have cleaned this up. I've sorted out the kitchen. I've made the phone call to the builder. I've sorted out this. And obviously then you start the listing and I hear myself. So this is like actually a bit of a self coaching moment here. Like it's not their responsibility. Like this is my life. I'm a grown up. It's my job. But I do find myself wanting them to be conscious of and aware of the
Ashley Vanerio (23:56.318)
Bye bye.
Kelly Rigg (24:07.768)
the strains that that can put me under. Like the fact that I can't concentrate in a space that's ridiculously messy. So we are gonna have to sort this out. And obviously like maybe it's coming up to dinner time and like we're gonna need to sit there and eat there soon. So like that has all got to go away. And that me having to do that first is gonna stop me from being able to get to the point of having my downtime window that I also really need. And so sometimes I will find myself saying that, okay, we can go watch TV, but pretty please can we clean up the craft first? Like can we just...
Like, get all the stuff in the bin, let's put all that stuff away and then you can absolutely go watch TV and have your chur time, that's fine. But I do find myself thinking it's interesting, the simultaneous thought is actually like, really? Like, actually, I suppose they are a child, they don't have to do these things necessarily. But actually, I feel like it's an important skill to build as they get older and more capable to notice and to do and to recognize, not to necessarily always do the work first. So if they'd said to me, or can we just go watch one episode and then come and do it?
Ashley Vanerio (24:37.819)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (25:06.734)
I say, yeah, as long as it's done by five, maybe that could be okay. That could be a reasonable compromise. It doesn't always have to be certain ways around, but it's just a thought really that actually it's important that they have these opportunities to be helpful and to get involved.
Ashley Vanerio (25:22.834)
Yeah. I mean, I would say we're almost like, I I'm definitely on the more strict end than you are because I am like, our rules in order to get screens are absolutely like some days it's just a no. Like I don't care. You're not, there's, we've had enough. maybe we've had heavy screen time previously in the week or like, for example, today I had a field hockey game. My husband had to work. So they had to come with me and watch it.
Kelly Rigg (25:38.286)
Mm-hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (25:50.876)
And so obviously they were allowed to have their iPads for that time. don't expect them to sit quietly on the side of the hockey pitch for, you know, we were there probably about three hours. That's very unrealistic. So they had their sticker books, they had their snacks, they had their iPads, but that means they're not getting it tonight, right? Because they've already had it. But that said, when they are allowed to have it, it is absolutely a, your room clean? Have like, have you done what I've asked you to do today? Cause it does vary. Like some days there's laundry to be folded. Some days there's.
Kelly Rigg (26:07.448)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (26:18.392)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (26:20.98)
laundry to be put away? have their dishes been brought to the sink? Can they, we're in a new house and we haven't really figured out how to get them to help with the dishwasher because we have kind of a interesting shaped kitchen and there's no real space for them in there to unload and reach high and all that. Like the little chair that they would stand on doesn't fit. So, so we'll have to figure that, the guy to tweak that a little bit or I'm going to lose my helpers, but, all of those things to include are your pajamas on.
Kelly Rigg (26:44.184)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (26:51.43)
Because I have found that getting their pajamas on after I've allowed them to watch TV, no matter like whenever that is in the the evening, even if it's before dinner time, whatever, it's like, I don't care. It's 4pm. And we're kind of getting towards that wall of the evening, like go put your pajamas on because I'm not fighting this at eight, eight o'clock at night. takes them forever. So, so we are an early pajama person. In fact, kind of a funny story. We had gotten all settled. I had them in their pajamas the other night.
Kelly Rigg (27:08.556)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (27:21.446)
And it was about 5 45 and I had to go over to our old house to meet someone who was picking up a piece of furniture that we weren't taking with us. And I had thought that my partner would be home and he's like, I'm stuck at work. can't be home. So I'm loading the three kids into the car in their pajamas to go over to the house. I was like, well, pajama party, like let's go. because. You know, we had already gotten to that part of our day. So I thank you, whatever, whatever works.
you know, but we definitely, I, once I give them screens, they're useless. So everything has to be done before that. There, there would be no way they'd go clean after. I know them, I know them too well.
Kelly Rigg (27:56.802)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (28:01.134)
I think this is really the thing. It's interesting, isn't it? I think this is the problem with a lot of device stuff is it can unfortunately, it switches them off entirely to their surroundings. My son, sadly, to the point of quite literally, he will forget to eat, drink, go to the toilet, all of it, everything drops away. And that can have like...
Ashley Vanerio (28:21.992)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rigg (28:25.226)
really not great consequences for him, he ends up with a headache, he ends up not feeling great, so I obviously have to be quite mindful of screen time for that reason too, this conversation for another time I suppose. But we're definitely kind of noticing that the more I allow my kids to be involved or asked to leave me to deal with something that's very important and for them to respect that there has to be some boundaries around this, that they have actually got to entertain themselves or...
Ashley Vanerio (28:33.812)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (28:52.062)
Even to the point of like we have got a few learning apps, so like the Elephant Maths that they do, name dropping lower, but it's really good. It's like an AI Maths tutor thing. Like they literally spend probably about half an hour every other week on it, to be We do other stuff in between. But that is a really great one. If I want to just sit them down and say, right, you can have some screen time, but I want to see, I can check it to see later how much time they spent on it. But like, I want to see that you've done 30 minutes of your Elephant Maths, then you can go and play.
game that you want to play. Or like today, my son was saying to me, like we've got like a list of things on our fridge that we kind of try and do a little bit of every week just to kind of give us something as a bit of a frame of reference to make sure that we have done a lot of different things. And on there that he hadn't done anything kind of that would be deemed creative this week. And I said hey have you have you built anything cool in Minecraft this week? And he's like actually I really want to go build a snake, like I want to design a snake.
in Minecraft, I was like, that'd be really awesome. Please make sure you show me that later, like I want to see it. And that counts. That's his creative box tics. That, for me, is considered school. That is a part of our learning for the week, is to encourage him to go and be creative in some form or another. And that can be with literally anything, like whether that's writing, art, making something, Minecraft, whatever. Playing with mud and goodness knows what else, coming up with a game with his friends, like creative counts in whatever form that comes in. But...
Ashley Vanerio (30:03.796)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (30:16.627)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (30:18.03)
But I think it's really important that we just take stock. I think you can really look at a day. Well, I always used to look at a day and actually think, what have we even done today? And it's kind of maybe finding a way for you to actually start to reflect on your weeks or your days. And lots of people do this very differently. So I don't know how you actually do it. It's quite interesting. I'll sort say how we do. So we have a list on the fridge of, I don't know, so reading, writing, comprehension, spelling.
writing slash mark making so it can be drawing as well. So anything that just requires fine motor skills basically with a pencil or a pen. And then we've got maths, science, I think at the moment it has history, nature, music, creativity, kindness, because we're working on that as our kind of self reflectiony topic and a few other different things. And then that will run us as those topics now.
Ashley Vanerio (30:53.619)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (31:15.534)
until kind of Christmas time, roughly about six weeks at a time. So I make like a little chart on the fridge. And essentially, what I do every day is I just try and reflect on the day. And I think of all the different random things that they were doing maybe by themselves, things that I instructed, places we went, whatever, really. And I just like colour in under they've both got their own little column. And I just quickly write with a bi-ray like one word that just helps to explain the gist of what it was. And essentially, the goal is, if we can, to actually
Ashley Vanerio (31:34.045)
Hmm.
Kelly Rigg (31:45.102)
colour in the whole, all of the subjects entirely for the course of the week. Now that literally, I'm talking we've spent 15, 20 minutes on each one. Like it's not a big deal. It's not asking me to do 20,000 things with them, but it just, what that helped me to do was to get to the end of my week and not to feel constantly like we've not done anything. It really helps me to go actually, we've done loads this week, like tick, there you go, I'm done. And so if I then need to sit and...
Ashley Vanerio (31:49.96)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (32:03.634)
Right.
Ashley Vanerio (32:09.093)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (32:11.788)
like really work a lot over the Saturday, Sunday, but I can see that over the course of Monday to Friday, we've done absolutely loads. And yeah, some weeks we don't, like some weeks I draw a big line through it. Like if stuff's really going on and I'm just like, I don't even want to think about this this week, I will literally just draw a line through it just be like, moving house. didn't care that week. Like we're just not recording it. I just don't care. But that for me, I've actually realized I've been doing it all year. I started it last January.
Ashley Vanerio (32:30.706)
Yeah, yeah, that's what says.
Kelly Rigg (32:41.174)
And it is actually sustained as a way for me to just keep ticking that box in my head so that I can just relax. And that has really helped me through the difficult weeks, through the moments when I haven't really felt a bit low, when we got the new puppy. I the puppy was great, endless science and like all kinds of interesting skills, like so much going on in that. But we can like find a way to measure it. Some people take photographs and so they've just got loads of photos in their phones that they can just like.
Ashley Vanerio (32:53.065)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (32:57.62)
you
Kelly Rigg (33:08.824)
flip back through the week and just be like, yeah, look, we did this, this, this, this, and this, yes, they've done loads of stuff this week. Like some people keep a full journal, like it just depends. Do you tend to keep track of anything? Like how do you tend to do that? Or don't you? Do you not do that?
Ashley Vanerio (33:23.366)
Yeah, no, I do. I keep track of it in just like a notebook planner. I can link the one I use. I've been using it for years now. It's like a blank one that you fill in the dates for, and I just do it every year. And I felt like in the earlier years, I could reverse plan. So I could just.
similar to you, like at the end of the day, note down what we did. And we do follow some curriculums. you know, the, especially from like the language arts perspective, the reading and math, I would just be able to write down, you know, today we did less than 15, we did less than 20, whatever, and have that tracked. And then any other things we watched this video, we did the science lesson, we did this history, like, or we went to visit this museum or whatever that all looked like.
And then I track in there, like their activities, whether it's like swimming or art class or French or whatever it might be. just to have all of that. But I've noticed as my oldest has gotten older, that if I leave it all to the reverse plan, I'm not, I think like, I, if I had thought that we were going to do this, I would have done this, like, instead of just like relying to fly, you know, forward in that way. So I am now.
Kelly Rigg (34:34.616)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (34:41.044)
trying to follow advice of other Susan homeschool parents and take a look at the lessons that are coming up to see if I want to weave something in. So for example, we are our language arts has a book that we're reading as part of it and it's on Ecuador. It takes place in Ecuador. And so I thought, well, gosh, I know I have some resources from
a South America unit that I had been looking at, let me pull that up and see what I have on that. And then I found some stuff for like the Galapagos Islands. like, so I was, you know, kind of like, okay, this is all really relevant and it's going to tie in some geography, some history into, and even maybe some science if we kind of look at some of the animals there and stuff. So I think that having that ability is helping me to kind of create a more
Kelly Rigg (35:20.078)
Hmm.
Ashley Vanerio (35:38.38)
relevant, well-rounded lesson. Yeah. Then just necessarily, I mean, and don't get me you can just follow like that. That's great. Like that is, that is absolutely wonderful. if that's, if that's what works. but I just know, I think for me, I find, I find a lot of, personal satisfaction in, planning out a curriculum and planning out a lesson. And so it's fun for me. And I feel like.
Kelly Rigg (35:41.634)
Yeah, more cohesive, yeah.
Kelly Rigg (36:04.344)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (36:07.764)
I feel like remiss when I miss out on an opportunity to make it a little more cohesive, a little more... Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (36:15.758)
Yeah, sort of like meaty and interesting. Yeah. I think that's the thing when we're like learners ourselves and we enjoy learning that actually we find ourselves really wanting to dive in with extra, give me more. And that's really great. I mean, the conversations that me and my kids have, I mean, it's just the other night with like obviously fireworks night. I was just chatting to somebody about it last night saying, if you think about it, most kids in school will do a lesson.
Ashley Vanerio (36:23.112)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (36:27.987)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (36:41.782)
around Fireworks Night most years, around Guy Fawkes, around the history around it. And actually, could I remember much about that when I was a kid? No. As an adult, like sitting and watching the Horrible Histories episode on YouTube, iPlayer, I think it was, with the kids. It was funny, it was interesting, it actually taught me a bunch of stuff that I didn't know. And we had a really interesting conversation about it. It then moved on to learning a bit more about religions and about why people can believe in...
Ashley Vanerio (36:45.714)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (37:00.884)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (37:09.11)
one God, but all have very different beliefs and like where that all stems from and it just turned into like days of conversations and then we did like a fun pop quiz in the car on the way to somewhere. Like you've just got to kind of get a bit creative with these things and have some fun expanding on it and as you say, just if you can see an opportunity to expand on something and use it, then do. Like even just like we went on holiday this year to Norway and we spent months learning about
the food, the Vikings, the route the cruise is going to take, how cruise ships work, why do cruise ships not sink? The conversations that were coming up were fantastic and were just lovely little peppered through the whole of our life basically. And going on the cruise, they were still learning, they were still asking great questions, they were still delving into interesting things because that is the life they lead. And I think if you can give them the gift, this is really the point.
Ashley Vanerio (37:42.333)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (38:02.414)
you can give them the gift of recognising that life is learning, learning is life, that things are happening all the time, that we might be doing maths at six o'clock, we might be doing maths at seven in the morning. Like you might be doing some maths by doing baking, you might be doing it with a workbook, you might be using an app. Like there's going to be lots of different moments when you're going to have to get a bit creative and you're going to do things a bit differently or something is going to fall by the wayside for five minutes whilst you focus on something else. And that for them helps them to understand that they themselves
can be flexible, they can be creative, they can come up with new ways of doing things, they can make their learning interesting and relevant and fun, they can do whatever. And this hopefully are skills which they will then continue to use as they go and get jobs one day, as they've got to try and come up with solutions to problems, as they have to got to be bored, maybe they're a bit restless, they're sitting in a job, no one's given them anything to do, they don't really know what to do with their day, maybe they'll actually be able to be intuitive.
and notice what needs to be done because you will have helped them to notice and do at home and help you out a lot more when things need to be done. Maybe they'll notice that someone next to them is having a bit of a hard day and they're trying to get this done the other done. And they'll say, hey, can I give you a hand? Like I haven't got a lot to do today. Like, you know what I mean? There's lots of different things that this will help them to build on skills-wise. And obviously we haven't even gone into the absolute depths of this. One of the tools that I use for this is chat GPT. If you are sat there thinking,
Ashley Vanerio (39:02.984)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (39:26.017)
yeah. Yes.
Kelly Rigg (39:28.142)
I have had a day today, I feel like we've done hardly anything. And you think to yourself, okay, we went to soft play this morning, we came home, they made their lunch. And we then then honestly, they've been watching Wild Kratts on TV this afternoon and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right, just, just that is an art book. Like, so it feels like a bit of a nothing day. Like they've literally they've gone to soft play, they've had some food and they've watched telly and you're like, my goodness, like today feels horrendous. And then you go on to chat GPT and you say, right, okay.
Can you please tell me what my children have learned based on the Key Stage 1 curriculum for the UK? We went to soft play with two friends this morning. We came home. They helped me to make sandwiches. They buttered the bread. They did that, whatever. And then they went and watched this program and this program and whatever independently by themselves using the remote, whatever. And then it basically will tell you.
All the different things, social-emotional skills, whether it's physical education, balance, coordination, it could be obviously being able to spread bread and spread butter on bread. That's a skill. That's a fine motor skills. Yeah, comprehension is understanding. You're asking them questions, they're answering your questions, whatever. There's so much happening in there that maybe you were sitting there going, it's been such a rubbish day, when actually it's helped them to have a chance to rest.
Ashley Vanerio (40:28.168)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (40:39.934)
Yeah.
Ashley Vanerio (40:48.851)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (40:55.276)
It's helped them to have time to socialize. It's helped them have a chance to solidify some thoughts. They might have been thinking about all sorts of stuff during that day. We've had chance to just be and to let those thoughts percolate and ideas might have been coming to the surface and they might begin waking up tomorrow morning ready to go with an idea they've seen in Wildcats of an outfit they want to create or something, who knows? And I think this is where we've just got to accept that they have got a brain between their ears.
Ashley Vanerio (41:05.0)
Yeah.
Kelly Rigg (41:21.39)
that is working and busy and learning and picking stuff up all the time. And it's just our job in these really difficult moments to have some self-compassion, to recognise that we cannot always be sat with them, focused on home education 24-7. That's not how it looks. So sometimes it's going to be busy and routines are going to go completely skew-with and that's okay. It's completely safe. It's not the end of the world. Your kids are not going to fall behind. There is no such thing.
They are going to pick up all kinds of interesting different skills and just see it as an opportunity to embrace that and to allow them to get involved, to help or to learn how to self entertain a little bit more and to do their learning a bit more independently. And yeah, just watch them and notice, just observe how much they're actually doing, I guess.
Ashley Vanerio (42:08.872)
Yeah.
Yeah, because they're doing a lot.
Kelly Rigg (42:13.718)
Yeah, they really, are. So that's kind of us for today, I think. So I hope that that's been helpful. As always, please do make sure if you enjoy listening to us that you do click Subscribe. Feel free to drop us a rating as well. Every single one really, really helps us to reach more people and to let people know about it. We've got a few more episodes to go. I think we've got four or five, I guess, up until kind of lead up to Christmas. And then we'll be taking a break over kind of.
Ashley Vanerio (42:40.628)
Mm-hmm.
Kelly Rigg (42:42.222)
Christmas again so do carry on listening for the next few weeks and yeah come give us a follow, come chat to us, tell us what you think and I hope you will have a lovely week. Take care.
Ashley Vanerio (42:52.594)
Yeah. Bye.
